Lots of countries are discriminating against men - just look as the discrepancy between maternity and paternity leave.
Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
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Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure if a court case were brought to their attention they'd agree with you. Might be similar to how the US SC (and other high courts) doesn't weigh in until lower courts have made a ruling, which means someone had to file suit for them to even take a look.
The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly faced the question of gay marriage and has denied the find such a right each time. One of the more recent cases is Chapin and Charpentier v. France, 2016: > In Chapin and Charpentier v. France, 2016, the Court reiterated that neither Article 12, nor Article 14 in conjunction with Article 8, which was more general in purpose and scope, could be interpreted as imposing…
Article 12 states: “Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.”
The EHCR has found the use of “men and women,” along with the “historical context” in which the clause was adopted, to mean that Article 12 applies to marriage as traditionally understood: between one man and one woman.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that Swiss women didn’t vote until (relatively) recently is not important. The fact that the were subject to ECHR jurisdiction is. The ECHR has immense respect for countries political processes, and allows all sorts of nasty laws (gay marriage bans, etc). My point is that this sort of micromanagement does not seem consistent with the ECHRs usual hands-off approach.
That’s typical for courts in Europe. For example, I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does.
> I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does.
Any thoughts about whether, in EU countries, it might be easier for the political process to make changes via legislation and constitutional amendment --- as opposed to the U.S. system of giving minority interest groups such extensive blocking rights?
(The U.S. system sometimes reminds me — and not in a good way — of the liberum veto of the old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, in which every (noble) member of the Sejm, or parliament, could block government action. Historians seem to agree that, over the long term, this arrangement was seriously-bad news for the Polish nation; quaere whether the U.S. might go down that path itself.)
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s typical for courts in Europe. For example, I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does.
> The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does. This is in part because the US legal system is based on common law / case law, whereas most of Europe is based on civil law.
That’s not really true - because most other common law jurisdictions aren’t like the US in this regard, the US is actually an outlier among common law countries, most of which prefer to resolve controversial social issues through legislative rather than judicial processes
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s typical for courts in Europe. For example, I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does.
> I don’t think any EU country legalized same-sex marriage by court order. I’m also not aware of any European country where abortion was legalized by court ruling. The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does. Any thoughts about whether, in EU countries, it might be easier for the political process to make changes via legislation and constitutional amendment --- a…
Australia’s constitution was partially based on that of the US. We are also a federation of states, with a federal Senate in which the least populous state has the same number of senators as the most populous. So we have rather similar potential for “blocking minorities” as the US.
And yet we have a reasonably liberal abortion regime nationwide - which is not due to the courts (we have no constitutional right to abortion), but simply the outcome of the democratic legislative process in each state. I think it never became quite the political/cultural hot potato here as it did in the US, in part because it was left up to elected officials rather than unelected judges. Even if someone doesn’t like the current situation, it is harder to object to the legitimacy of it when the people the voters voted for are responsible for it.
I think one relevant difference is that as a country with a smaller population and a shorter (post-colonisation) history, there is arguably less inter-state cultural diversity in Australia. We don’t really have “red states” and “blue states” - some states lean more one way than the other, but it is much less polarised than the US.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#36I was HORRIFIED when I discovered that in Italy, fathers get 4 days of PTO (recently doubled, up from TWO), compared to 1 (or 2,can't remember) months for the mother. Of course there is a difference in physical impact, but 4 days versus 30 feels like a joke. I'm glad I moved to a different country before having children.
As a dad, I wanted to stay with my children as much as possible, especially as soon as they were born. I was seriously sleep deprived (2 hours per week sleep deprived) for almost 1 month, until we figured out a few tricks.
This law reminds me of that. All these laws should be realigned.
Re: Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US Supreme Court is unusual in running roughshod over the political process as much as it does. This is in part because the US legal system is based on common law / case law, whereas most of Europe is based on civil law.
That’s not really true - because most other common law jurisdictions aren’t like the US in this regard, the US is actually an outlier among common law countries, most of which prefer to resolve controversial social issues through legislative rather than judicial processes
I don't disagree that the US is an outlier even compared to other common law jurisdictions such as the UK, but I'd argue that the common law framework is a necessary (albeit insufficient) condition for what the US judiciary is doing.
For instance, decriminalization of abortion in Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Morgentaler