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Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

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Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#521

Post by godelski »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #242
daedalus_j wrote: post #149

I've been using Signal for a long time. I have repeatedly been unable to convince iOS users to use Signal because "I don't want another app". Android users have been much more willing to give it a shot. As an android user myself, I much prefer having SMS built in because I use the search feature often to look back through all my SMS/Signal chats. I also regularly forward an SMS message to a Signal user, or vice versa…

The biggest issue I can see with using two separate apps is checking who's on Signal and who isn't. That means opening up Signal to see if they're on there and then switching to SMS if they aren't. I much prefer having both types of contacts in the same UI and it's been obvious to me which messages are secure. Also, when someone then joins Signal, subsequent messages to them automatically get upgraded to being secure…

People often complain about the alert that you get when one of your contacts joins Signal but this is exactly what that attempts to solve

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#522

Post by corndoge »

This is a really terrible idea, and the reasoning doesn't make much sense. The three reasons given are all the same reason which is "users aren't sure whether they are sending SMS or signal messages" and is purely a UX problem.

Reason 1 and 2: Users can be confused by whether a message is SMS or Signal and this is bad for security, backed with "there's only so much we can do on the design side"...really? At what point do you sacrifice the convenience of the masses in order to get through to people who don't understand that a message that says "SMS" on it is sent over SMS? Hell, turn SMS bubbles bright red or something, that would be better than removing the feature.

Reason 2: Users can be confused by whether a message is SMS or signal and thus end up incurring charges - I thought about this for 5 seconds and came up with a solution - ask the user whether they ever want to send SMS through the signal app when they first open it and respect that preference. Make it a setting. Boom, if you are using signal you know you're going over data. Or is the response to that that users are too dumb to understand it? I'm positive there is a good solution here.

This decision just doesn't make any sense and it's probably obvious to the people working on signal that it doesn't make sense, I wonder what the decision process looked like here.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#523

Post by brainbag »

corndoge wrote: post #522

This is a really terrible idea, and the reasoning doesn't make much sense. The three reasons given are all the same reason which is "users aren't sure whether they are sending SMS or signal messages" and is purely a UX problem. Reason 1 and 2: Users can be confused by whether a message is SMS or Signal and this is bad for security, backed with "there's only so much we can do on the design side"...really? At what poin…

Even non-technical users understand the difference between a blue and a green message on iPhone. There's no reason they could not have made a clear visual distinction with icons or messages or something.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#524

Post by folmar »

chungy wrote: post #401
alerighi wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all my messages is easier than making a context switch per-contact A user already has: - WhatsApp - Telegram - Facebook Messanger - Instagram that has direct messages - the good old email, or better, many of them - Microsoft Teams for company communications - Discord for communications with group of friends - the old SMS (that I didn't even know that in some parts of the world were still used, since I receive them…

Does anyone actually have all those? I certainly don't. I have Signal, Element, Telegram and I even think that's excessive. I can at least manage it, most RL contacts I know would not.

Most people that I know younger than 30 do. It's slightly biased towards the programming crowd, but not that much.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#525

Post by aendruk »

dontlaugh wrote: post #339
grammers wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I've switched to iOS recently and I hate that I need two apps now. Already longing to go back to Android.

You need WhatsApp anyway, you’ll have several apps whatever you do.

Historically WhatsApp filled in where SMS was harder to use, and places tended to use either WhatsApp or SMS ubiquitously. So the communities most affected by Signal dropping SMS don’t have an existing social need for WhatsApp.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#526

Post by fluidcruft »

wardedVibe wrote: post #510
velosol wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap you weren't kidding! The blog post needs to be shelved and redone as every listed reason feels post hoc while the reasons listed at that link ([1] for anyone who dislikes friction) are grounded in reality and show Signal being proactive. [1]: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms...

Its more understandable, but its still a major headache for those of us not forced into google's RCS walled garden.

What about the issue it mentions of replies to SMS coming over RCS and never arriving in SMS apps? I'm inclined to agree with the assessment that all 3rd-party SMS on Android are toast. Eventually only the device's/carrier's stock messanger will be reliable.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#527

Post by godelski »

matsemann wrote: post #184
eatwater123 wrote: post #10

This is an awful decision. I've converted some friends and family to Signal over the past years (it took a while) and it is now their default messaging app on their phones. This is going to confuse them and is going to make it difficult for me to keep convincing them that Signal is the route to use. ("Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp) to talk to people?")

Is this outcry US specific? Don't think I've sent a single SMS the last decade here in EU.

I'm guessing. Though I'm in the US but also in grad school. With a large number of foreign students there are similarly a large number of WhatsApp, Telegram, and WeChat users. I suspect this problem is very Americentric. India was able to get all its old people to use WhatsApp and multiple apps, I think there is a bit of an overreaction going on here. You'd think the world is ending for a feature most people didn't know existed (despite it being a prompt during signup).

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#528

Post by dnebdal »

brational wrote: post #496
endorphine wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I would not like for SMS to be mixed with my secure messages. I see this as a feature.

Given the bizarre backlash here from people that think sms comms are ok I reckon I’ll start a monthly contribution.

Oh no, the "did you remember to lock the door to the auditorium" messages I send to my boss may be unencrypted. The humanity.

What do you purists use to talk to all the random people around you? Do you reply "I'm sorry, it's too insecure for me to answer that, you'll have to install Signal first" messages when more distant colleagues ask you if you're at your desk right now? Do you teach your grandmother to use WhatsApp so her birthday greetings won't be intercepted by the NSA?

(Admittedly, the email situation at work being utter trash may be coloring my opinion here.)

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#529

Post by smeej »

caf wrote: post #490
nicholasjarnold wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely here. This is terrible news from my perspective too. I use Signal for _all messaging_ (e2e secure or not) for the reasons that you mention. I've onboarded friends and family, too, ensuring them it should be set as their default messaging app and that it _just works_. Unfortunately, people in the general population seem to have pretty much zero tolerance for any friction whatsoever. If they have to…

If they have to use 2 apps, they'll just end up communicating with me in the clear using their "default SMS" app on their phone. That's what this is going to result it...a reduction in overall message security due to people defaulting to what's easier...which is to _not_ have to remember which app to use for which "send a message" purpose. Fuck. Exactly right. In fact, I will be doing this too. Right now, I use Signa…

I've run into a related problem:

I have (iOS-using) friends I have convinced to register their numbers with Signal...but they never check Signal. They do check SMS.

This actually drove me away from using Signal for SMS on Android, because I couldn't send those friends SMS messages through Signal. They could only go out as Signal messages, and my friends never checked them.

Fortunately, I only have a handful of friends in this category, and virtually everyone else I talk to does use and check Signal, but it's a usability problem both ways.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#530

Post by zalebz »

I have nothing new to add other than to simply parrot what has been said a few hundred times above.

This is a terrible decision.

It took significant effort to convert close friends and family to signal and was only palatable due to it becoming the default messaging app on Android.

Not only will I be likely to field a ton of tech support once this occurs, I'll also likely need to recommend a completely different app.

Looks like I might just bite the bullet and buy iPhones for my immediate family (without icloud imessage backup)

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