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Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#461

Post by brigandish »

NickC25 wrote: post #336
fsckboy wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>whose life has been ruined permanently, and how? genuinely curious. I hope you're trolling. You want to know whose life has been ruined? The 26 elementary school kids whose heads were blown off by a deranged asshole. You want to know whose life has been ruined? The parents who had to move 5-6 times because Jone's deranged followers kept stalking them and actively engaging in some of the most inhumane, heartless and…

$815k a day? Wow. I would’ve never thought that Infowars could make so much money. I’ve seen some others in the thread mention Jones’ millions, are his financials available? I thought he’d lied and obfuscated them in order to go bankrupt.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#462

Post by helf »

unknownaccount wrote: post #435
mostafas wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Hitler personally kill any Jews? Did Putin personally kill any Ukrainians? Sorry to invoke Godwin's law so early.

No but this still establishes a scary new precedent; that any podcaster/videomaker is now legally responsible for any illegal actions that their viewers commit on their own accord. I can imagine how this will result in people being scared to criticize any leader or person in power because their comment/video might inspire some crazy person to harass them for which they will be found legally responsible.

Omg no it doesn’t. You know damn well that some random streamer or podcaster isn’t the same as some of these heavy hitters of insanity.

And even ignoring that then YES, YES they should be held accountable if they are knowingly spewing falsehoods and stirring up people and it causes shit like that.

“Free speech” != “I can be a total fuckwad and say whatever so want without any repercussions!”

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#463

Post by bradford »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #309
alexb_ wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I normally would agree with you - I'm very pro free speech - but what Alex Jones did was not just "the wrong words", it was blatant slander that permanently ruined the lives of these people. I understand why you're concerned, but we've had slander laws forever, and this is exactly what it's used for.

> but what Alex Jones did was not just "the wrong words", it was blatant slander that permanently ruined the lives of these people. How did it do that?

Might I recommend the book "Sandy Hook: An American Tragedy and the Battle for Truth" by Elizabeth Williamson.

It goes into great detail the impact that Jones' slander had on the Sandy Hook families.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#464

Post by unknownaccount »

helf wrote: post #449
unknownaccount wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what the erosion of personal responsibility and accountability looks like. Alex Jones isnt responsible if stupid impressionable people watch his show and do stupid things. That is absurd and absolutely chilling in regards to free speech. Perhaps it even sets a new precedent that everyone who posts a comment/video/podcast online is now responsible for any illegal actions that any of their viewer commit.

Oh here we go… rolls eyes This is not “chilling to free speech”. Spewing hatred and demonstrably false utter bullshit and stirring up people knowingly is what he has and continues to do. Just like any number of other sociopathic fuckwits out there and through the ages. “Personal responsibility and accountability “ is exacty what he’s being held accountable for because /his/ actions, /his/ drivel, /his/ psychotic vitr…

Alex Jones wasnt the mastermind who created this conspiracy theory. The crisis actors conspiracy theory was already popular on the internet a couple days after the incident, months to years before Alex Jones covered it. There were numerous people speculating at the time about some strange discrepencies in the official narrative and footage which was able to convince some otherwise very reasonable people that there was a possibility that it was a hoax. So no, it cant be said for certain that he knew it was false. And no, he cant be blamed for covering a popular conspiracy theory on his show when its well known that he performs a conspiracy theory talkshow. I dont understand why this whole conspiracy which already existed is being attributed to Alex Jones. Perhaps just because he has a popular show? This is a clear case of punishing a citizen for having the wrong opinion.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#465

Post by ncallaway »

wara23arish wrote: post #174
techsupporter wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of them have been (for example: https://www.mcall.com/hc-sandy-hook-denier-harrassment-0225-... ) but the main problem is that it is, as most of us posting here know, difficult to track down the individuals directly performing the harassment. Alex Jones is directly inciting people to go harass the plaintiffs so he bears liability for his actions.

did he really say go harass these people or did he just say they’re crisis actors and its hoax? Im genuinely asking because i don’t understand how this works. I was under the impression that saying “Trump is a murderous liar” is fine, if I say “Go kill trump”etc then thats incitement. Does that make sense?

Incitement is not defamation.

He was not sued for "incitement", he was sued for defamation.

To prove defamation, you need to prove that someone lied about you, and that those lies caused material harms.

You saying "Trump is a murderous liar" is largely fine because:

- A reasonable reader, familiar with the context of the place you are writing, would understand that you aren't making a factual claim that Trump murdered a person but rather you are expression a rhetorical political opinion.

- Trump is a public figure, which means you must meet the "actual malice" standard of reckless disregard for the truth.

- Trump must have been materially harmed by your statements for it to be worth suing you.

If you, on the other hand, falsely and deliberately recklessly said: "Trump murdered person X", repeated that claim for years, and convinced hundreds thousands of people that it was true to the point where Trump had to move houses several times due to ongoing death threats, then you would probably be liable for defamation.

The _context_ matters. The _breadth of your reach_ matters. The _actual harms caused_ matter.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#468

Post by dolfine »

greedo wrote: post #439
paganel wrote: post #430

Blatantly copying from Twitter [1], but it's what I believe, also: > The largest fine paid by a banking executive responsible for the 2008 Financial Crisis was $67.5 million A few tens of millions would have set straight almost everyone involved, the victims getting their money, Jones having to pay out of his pocket. But $1 billion means Jones will never be able to pay the sum, and, what's more, it will also silence…

Interesting and brave take to defend a real scumbag.

No post body was provided.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#470

Post by donatj »

tptacek wrote: post #8
ivraatiems wrote: post #4

This is great news, but we should temper our expectations: It's likely that Jones will appeal and keep this tied up for years before he has to pay anything. Even if he is eventually obligated to pay some amount, it is unlikely to be what the jury just decided. And even if it is what the jury just decided, Jones' company is already "bankrupt" (yet still on the air) and he will almost certainly avoid liability through…

Remarkably, I think this is all economic damages --- they haven't reached the punitive damages phase. Furthermore, Connecticut doesn't have caps on compensatory damage for emotional distress. So this isn't quite like the Texas situation, where Jones attorneys successfully convinced the jury to award relatively small compensatory damages and large punitive damages --- those Texas punitive damages will get knocked way…

How does one possibly cause $64 million in straight damages per plaintiff? This isn't even the punitive yet.

You could take everything I own and prevent me from ever earning another dollar and it wouldn't be $64 million dollars.

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