Live data from Hacker News

Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

adhdevidence.org

71–80 of 114 posts

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#71
Site could use some polish but IMO it's not that bad or somehow "worse" because I have ADHD. Nothing factually wrong or biased stands out. It's a standard meta-analysis that finds that most treatment theories have no or limited evidence.

I think it's beneficial overall to have the research on ADHD in one place even if it has little practical advice. While it might seem like ADHD is a very normalized condition, there's still some misunderstanding in many countries and regulatory bodies.

In the US, where ADHD is most normalized, ADHD can impact your ability to get a commercial flight license which includes recreational flying of certain aircraft [1]. It may prevent you from joining the military which many need to afford higher education [2]. Outside the US, it gets worse. Stimulant treatment in Europe is difficult and underutilized despite the evidence [3]. The strangest effect I've heard (anecdotally) was that ADHD diagnosis can increase mortgage interest rates in Sweden (or maybe it was Norway?).

It's strange that ADHD is both rejected as not-real or over-diagnosed and also treated as a severe condition by certain groups. Even if these negative effects can be mitigated by changing medication or getting a medical waiver, it discourages individuals with ADHD from applying and adds more bureaucratic cruft as a cruel joke.

[1] https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd [2] https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/NCO-Journal/Archive... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2942810/

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#72
post #37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really interesting that neuro linguistic programming helped you so much. I don't want to inquire into your own experiences as it's personal. But, I used to follow NLP very closely and sort of lost interest over time. Anyway, I felt it was best suited to 'software' changes in oneself - say at level of beliefs about the world, and how our use of symbols and language can affect our experience and abilities. ADHD,…

I think you are spot on. As a person in that spectrum, i feel everyone's brain is hardwired in some way, and if you want to fight it with workarounds (with techniques/strategies) you will have to pay a lot in terms of brain power. And not a lot of ADHD people are motivated to do that (thanks to ADHD lol)..

Yeah it's interesting. My entire life is held together by a fragile network of hacks to get myself to almost kinda sorta approximate normal adult behavior. I've managed to take things pretty far with that actually, but I'm very prone to falling off the rails.

Among the many many novelty-seeking obsessions I've had over the years, one of them was meditation. I got REALLY deep into it. Started doing it everyday. That was the closest thing to a miracle cure for my ADHD I've ever tried. I was just practicing two skills: awareness of the contents of my attention, and the ability to shift that attention back to an object of my choosing. At first, I'd get an hour after a 25-30 minute sit where I could just focus and do the things I wanted to do. With daily sits in the 25-60 minute range, I started to get continuous awareness of attention. It was like a superpower. I could actually listen to people when they spoke without getting excited and interrupting them, or getting distracted. So much of my life changed for the better. Then... I ran into some of the dark side of meditation. "Dark night of the soul" kind of stuff where tons of repressed emotions started involuntarily resurfacing, and I started getting tension headaches for the first time in my life. Ultimately I just had to stop.

And now I'm back to where I always was... trying to figure out what to do. Can't do stimulants because my blood pressure runs spuriously high. I need to checkout the non-stimulant meds, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#73

Site could use some polish but IMO it's not that bad or somehow "worse" because I have ADHD. Nothing factually wrong or biased stands out. It's a standard meta-analysis that finds that most treatment theories have no or limited evidence. I think it's beneficial overall to have the research on ADHD in one place even if it has little practical advice. While it might seem like ADHD is a very normalized condition, there'…

It also drastically increases you life insurance premium.

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#74

With all the comments about carousels, I just had to look! Is the idea that the site's interactivity is stimulating and thus soothing and attention grabbing for ADHD folks? As being diagnosed myself, I feel like such treatment is disgustingly patronizing.

I reckon they got a rookie web dev to put it together, and naturally they got excited by carousels, because that's what landing pages for shiny products have on them (annoyingly).

Yeah, the site hurts my ADHD brain to read too:

- The font is simultaneously too big and too small, inconsistent in sizes and styles between headers and sections. The handwritten font used in a few places is basically illegible to me.

- The margins/padding are too small - the text comes riiight up to the edge of my screen! Argh

- The carousel sections could just be..... all shown as regular paragraphs, one under each other... without the distracting animation... Not great for working memory, having things you want to read going in and out of your visual field! Let me scan the whole document!

- The page is full-width, all sections get as wide as possible - meaning you can have lines of text which are like 40 words long! (Longest I counted was one of the reddit AMA questions - 41 words). The line length should be limited to like 75 characters maximum. [1]

- Lots of stuff is too close together (not enough vertical padding) - like the reddit AMA questions. Why are those in an accordion and collapsed by default? What are the borders between them for - do they show the top of one or the bottom of another?

- Why do the "Source" buttons pop up a modal dialog with a snippet of reddit thread which is styled entirely different to the rest of the site? Again, why not just show all of that information on the page to begin with?

- A long page which you just have to scroll is _infinitely_ more readable than a user interface where stuff is popping in and out of existence everywhere and depends on user clicks. What if you're dyspraxic / you don't use a screen reader but your carpal tunnel's acting up?

The accessibility options provided by UserWay are a nice touch, but the little human icon at the bottom right isn't immediately obvious what it is (at least give it an "Accessibility" label). Make it _above the fold_ - top of the page. Make it one of the first things someone who would _want_ the accessibility options would spot!

I think that sites like this, where it does look like the _intention_ is to make it accessible and readable by as many people as possible, could take inspiration from the UK Gov Design System [2] and read about the principles underpinning it [3].

I've experimented in the past with making my personal blog more readable for "people with brains like me" [4]. It's certainly personal taste / meeting my own personal needs, but how I lay out information on that blog (very narrow, very linear, minimal interaction needed) is a lot different to how the ADHD Evidence Project site lays stuff out (very wide, multiple columns, stuff inconsistently in and accordions and popups)

[1] https://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability

[2] https://design-system.service.gov.uk/

[3] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/government-design-principles

[4] https://odj.me/blog/2021-10-22-a11y

(This turned into a long comment because I'm going to send the link to u/sfaraone on reddit as my feedback :-))

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#75
post #68
post #57

> This information War on ADHD stigmatizes affected people, On the contrary I see tons of accommodations made by both private and public organizations. Many, many people seem to enjoy diagnosing themselves with this condition. Can someone point to evidence of stigmatization?

Getting meds at the pharmacy (even after getting a prescription) can be a pain. I’ve run into issues where I’ll have a prescription, but the pharmacy that it’s sent to is out of stock. But pharmacy’s aren’t allowed to disclose stock of controlled substances over the phone, so I have to call my Dr to ask them to transfer the prescription to a different pharmacy, hoping that it’s not out of stock. If it is, I have to d…

That is partly due to the rise in prescribing the medication. I saw the DOJ launched an investigation into some of these mental health startups to determine if they are just modern day pill mills, or if they are actually helping people.

I do agree with your point though, getting controlled substances filled is hard. It is unfortunate people abuse them which makes it harder for people who actually need them to have them filled easily.

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#76

I remain highly skeptical that there is a common neurological physical pathology in children that is treatable by a steady lifetime use of amphetamines and amphetamine derivatives. It's all comparable to the other major pharamceutical scandal of our era, i.e. the opiate prescription business. I would agree that children who appear incapable of paying attention to their teachers (who may not be very good teachers) in…

> I remain highly skeptical that there is a common neurological physical pathology in children that is treatable by a steady lifetime use of amphetamines and amphetamine derivatives.

I would argue that even if the effects diminish over time (and it’s true, they do), the benefit of being able to focus in class in those early formative years will pay dividends down the line. Being able to pay attention means you don’t have to play catch-up in math/English/etc later in life. The knowledge you gain in those years doesn’t go away once you stop taking meds.

I’m just speaking as someone who didn’t get diagnosed until I was in my late 20’s. Getting diagnosed and prescribed meds was truly life changing and it’s frustrating thinking back and knowing school didn’t have to be so difficult.

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#77
I feel like there has to be other under explored methods of treating ADHD aside from medication. I’ve yet to find any for myself, but am also incredibly hesitant to medicate my symptoms away. I’ve tried stimulants in the past and was left feeling like I traded one issue (lack of concentration and executive function) for another (racing thought and elevated heart rate).

I do see CBT mentioned, but only as an adjunct to medication. Another commenter here mentioned NLP which I have never heard of prior. Will take a look into this as well.

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#78

I remain highly skeptical that there is a common neurological physical pathology in children that is treatable by a steady lifetime use of amphetamines and amphetamine derivatives. It's all comparable to the other major pharamceutical scandal of our era, i.e. the opiate prescription business. I would agree that children who appear incapable of paying attention to their teachers (who may not be very good teachers) in…

Undiagnosed and untreated adults with ADHD develop higher than normal rates of mental illness like anxiety and depression, higher rates of substance abuse and addiction, and often have difficulty maintaining personal relationships, careers, even basic personal responsibilities. Whatever the physiological reason, failing to diagnose and treat ADHD has a detrimental effect for many of us. I was diagnosed a few years ag…

AFAIK “meth mouth” is a myth. It’s just that addicts tend to care much less about dental hygiene. Amphetamines may dry your mouth slightly but as long as you keep your proper dental routine you should be fine.

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#79

Can someone with ADHD give an example of a website that is well organized and architected that they find helpful as a counterexample to this site? I'm curious as someone parenting someone with ADHD what that would look like.

UK public sector websites [1] following the gov.uk design system [2] -- I find everything on gov.uk and nhs.uk suuuuper easy to read.

[1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivit... [2] https://design-system.service.gov.uk/

(And then, when you look at local authority websites for local councils, or local healthcare trusts, they're an absolute disparate hellscape of information badly put together in powerpoints, word documents, handmade GP websites tacked onto by students on work placements who know a bit about HTML, ...)

Re: Evidence-based conclusions about ADHD

#80
post #69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting meds at the pharmacy (even after getting a prescription) can be a pain. I’ve run into issues where I’ll have a prescription, but the pharmacy that it’s sent to is out of stock. But pharmacy’s aren’t allowed to disclose stock of controlled substances over the phone, so I have to call my Dr to ask them to transfer the prescription to a different pharmacy, hoping that it’s not out of stock. If it is, I have to d…

I think maybe you answered the wrong comment

Not the wrong place; stigma is a huge part of why fulfilling these subscriptions is so awful.
Post reply on HN