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MAR1D: First-Person Mario

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Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#71

Post by fnordpiglet »

cassianoleal wrote: post #20
ryanisnan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the width of a pixel along the Z-axis is arbitrary, and you only see one, no, it would not be 3D. It's still 2D, you just have the ability to more easily see. You gain no new information.

I'm with GP on this one. You say "width of a pixel". That width is a dimension. If that dimension exists, along with X and Y, then it should 3D. And that's when talking about video-games or computer graphics. In the Flatland example, there are no pixels. The characters shouldn't be able to see each other or the structures on their 2D plane at all.

No, it’s not. A dimension requires freedom to be parameterized and independence from other dimensions. In this example “Y” is invariantly defined as 1. Similarly a level surface defines a dimension to a fixed value and provides an n-1 dimensional view of a n dimensional view. Mapping this to a level surface you declare Y=1 and only X is varying. Y has scale but no dimensionality due to its lack of freedom.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#72

Post by xwdv »

layer8 wrote: post #67
xwdv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2D Mario doesn’t have two eyes, he has one. If he is drawn with two eyes the second one would be inside his body and would not see anything as it’s view is blocked by pixels.

If you look at the initial zoom, his eye actually lies within his head, so it’s unclear how he can see anything at all.

That is strange.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#74

Post by dusted »

I wonder if I still have my prototype somewhere, exactly the same thought.. We humans exist in 3D space, yet perceive the world in 2D (with some additional depth perception added).. Sooo.. our perception is 1 dimension less. If someone were to inhibit only 2 dimensions, they'd perceive one dimension less, so 1D. Now, to translate that back into something a human could see, it'd just be... bands.. My engine had the bands extend the entire width, but same thing. I also made a 1D version, where you.. yes, move along a single axis, and your perception is thus 0 dimensions, simply a point (extended to fill the entire screen) that changed brightness.

I also made another one were you were a a typical 2D platformer character, but with the ability to rotate around your own Y axis, so the levels were fully 3D environments, and it sliced a plane through the world with the origin being the player character. You had to turn around yourself a lot to get an idea of the environment.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#75

Post by dusted »

samwillis wrote: post #47
worewood wrote: post #38

Well, we see the world as a 2d projection BUT we (usually) have 2 eyes so we have some amount of 3d-info. Maybe mario has 2 eyes too, which would give him some amount of 2d-info. (Just like an MRI can construct a 2d slice from 1d info). So the first person game should have maybe a depth info on those pixels. What I mean, mario does not see only a line. He sees a silhouette of what lies ahead of him.

I think it would require one eye above the other to have depth perception in his 2d world. Eyes can’t even be side-by-side as that axis doesn’t exist. Having said that, the human brain is capable of reconstructing a 3d perception with only one eye through learnt understand and interpreting the picture change over time as you move. I image it’s the same for Mario, but in 2d.

exactly, if mario had stereo vision, it'd have to be his eyes were on top of each other.. And just like how 3D games projected onto a 2D monitor are not much different from their VR counterparts, a 2D game projected into stereo 1D wouldn't be much more interesting either..

I thought about it, how our eyes are placed on the sides, probably because we're very earth-bound, and horizon lies that way and such.. It'd be really interesting if we had an additional third eye on our forehead, it'd give us a bit more detailed depth perception, but I don't think it'd be that much more useful.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#76

Post by the_af »

ogoparootbbo wrote: post #43

how is this 1d when there is a second dimension albeit small?

If you mean the line doesn't have a single pixel width, this is what the website explains:

    How is this 1D? The game is more than one pixel wide!
    
    The game width can actually be adjusted, including to a width of one pixel. That's how I prefer to play, but other people had trouble seeing what was going on.
    
    Regardless of how much you stretch it though, there is only one dimension of information, the horizontal smear is entirely redundant. Your computer's pixels have some amount of depth to them, but that doesn't mean the games you play on them have 3 dimensional viewports.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#77

Post by zeristor »

UmYeahNo wrote: post #68
xwdv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2D Mario doesn’t have two eyes, he has one. If he is drawn with two eyes the second one would be inside his body and would not see anything as it’s view is blocked by pixels.

If we take it further, even the eye "we" can see is blocked by the bridge of his nose, so I doubt he actually sees anything.

What would the people in a Picasso picture see?

There’s one for Dall-e Mario level as painted by Picasso

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#79

Post by egypturnash »

lioeters wrote: post #46
an1sotropy wrote: post #16

If you like this, you'll like Planiverse (1984) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Planiverse A bit like the classic Flatland book, this also imagines a 2D world, and also fosters thinking about higher dimensions. But there's a nice shift: if there's an "up" in Flatland, it points out of the world, whereas in Planiverse, the up is in-world, and we visit the world by looking at it from the side, rather than from above.…

Planiverse is one of my all-time favorite books. Some tasty morsels: The Planiverse: Computer Contact with a Two-Dimensional World - Engineering Designs in Planiverse - https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/courses/soco/project... --- > Dewdney wrote The Planiverse as..an allegory for his search for a reality deeper than that of scientific enquiry, and his subsequent conversion to Sufiism. We're the ones living in…

subsequent conversion to Sufiism.

Huh. That makes a lot of sense from what I remember of the way the whole thing ended, with Yendred's time under the tutelage of Drabk the Sharak. Hello weird names still stuck in my head after thirty or so years.

Not that this wasn't also a theme in Abbot's earlier Flatland, most of his other writing was theology, and it, too, climaxes with a mystical experience for its 2D protagonist. But A. Square ends up back in his flat world, writing from a madhouse, rather than transcending it and going on to... something inexplicable.

I have spent time poking against this sort of thing and madness is definitely a possible result.

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