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Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

penntoday.upenn.edu

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Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#101

Post by bmau5 »

rongopo wrote: post #72
bmau5 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So glad to hear it! These microbial communities play a critical role in our health, so we should feed them accordingly. We're trying to help educate on the same behavior for the oral microbiome. There's a lot of focus on what not to eat (sugar, etc.), but not on what we can eat to improve our oral health. We wrote an article on it here [1]. [1] https://www.bristlehealth.com/post/improve-your-oral-microbi...

I found your article well intentioned and organised but frustrating, because it contains not enough examples for the non expert public it addresses. E.g. what are examples of "sticky and starchy foods"?

Thank you for this feedback, I appreciate it. We'll get the article updated to include more examples. If you have any other feedback on the article or site please let me know! Always trying to improve it.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#102

Post by someotherperson »

culi wrote: post #74
bmau5 wrote: post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

I think a very interesting field of inquiry into oral microbiota is a broad evolutionary approach. There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. Modern oral microbiota are markedly less diverse than historic populations and the, much more developed, study of the gut microbiome shows us that very microbial diversity…

I went to an exhibit of an excavation of an old (4th/5th century) settlement in the Adriatic and it detailed every single skeleton pulled out of the different cemeteries. The interesting part for me was that almost every single one of them had bad teeth -- caries and periodontitis.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#103

Post by eyelidlessness »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #87
alvarezbjm-hn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. A different diet leads to a different microbiome. I think mammals' teeth last long enough for a natural life. Of course we want a longer and better life. For instance, all my dogs by age 13 yo have lost half their teeth to rot. We are terrible owners who don't take ca…

Do you feed your dogs kibble? It is not a natural diet. Horses likewise are typically eating a very unnatural diet, typically hay. These are both perfect examples of a analogous diet to modern human diet. The difference being that they are animals and have no ability to correct for poor dietary "choices" with proper maintenance. I agree, however, with your self assessment.

> I agree, however, with your self assessment.

Didn’t take long to go from glib self deprecation to judgy spectator sport.

Okay holier than thou pet owner, you tell me how I’m supposed to not feed my pup kibble. She has a prescription low fat diet and there are two vendors total who supply the prescription. One supplies only kibble. The other supplies kibble and canned food. She will only eat a few bites of the canned food each day. Should she starve because the kibble isn’t natural? The canned food isn’t either, should she just starve? Should I feed her chicken and rice which even with all the fat trimmed off is still too rich for her? Or should she be set free to eat whatever she can get sick on or get hit by a car trying?

I’m doubtful my pup will have rotten teeth at 13 because she’s fortunate that dental health has been among her better strokes of luck. But I’m sure as hell going to feed her the “unnatural” food she depends on to have a healthy life and not feel guilted by judgmental busybodies about it.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#104

Post by diob »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #64
bmau5 wrote: post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

What do you think of mouth washes that contains Cetylpyridinium Chloride (CPC)? I was reading they may help inactivate SARS-Cov-2 in saliva. I wonder though about (1) killing everything in the mouth or (2) providing oral probiotics (I take one from Life Extension). "Cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC), a quaternary ammonium compound, which is present in mouthwash, is effective against bacteria, fungi, and enveloped viruse…

If I don't use mouth wash I end up getting ulcers all over my mouth. It's strange, not sure why but my mouth can't handle living without it.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#105

Post by londons_explore »

someotherperson wrote: post #102
culi wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a very interesting field of inquiry into oral microbiota is a broad evolutionary approach. There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. Modern oral microbiota are markedly less diverse than historic populations and the, much more developed, study of the gut microbiome shows us that very microbial diversity…

I went to an exhibit of an excavation of an old (4th/5th century) settlement in the Adriatic and it detailed every single skeleton pulled out of the different cemeteries. The interesting part for me was that almost every single one of them had bad teeth -- caries and periodontitis.

Go back another 2000 years or so, and nearly every one has great teeth...

The switch of grain-based diets is suspected to be a big part of the cause.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#106

Post by londons_explore »

alvarezbjm-hn wrote: post #79
culi wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a very interesting field of inquiry into oral microbiota is a broad evolutionary approach. There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. Modern oral microbiota are markedly less diverse than historic populations and the, much more developed, study of the gut microbiome shows us that very microbial diversity…

>> There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. A different diet leads to a different microbiome. I think mammals' teeth last long enough for a natural life. Of course we want a longer and better life. For instance, all my dogs by age 13 yo have lost half their teeth to rot. We are terrible owners who don't take ca…

Dog food isn't very optimal for dogs...

Most wild dogs would eat almost exclusively fresh raw meat.

Whereas dog food tends to be dried meat with lots of corn as a filler. People wouldn't be able to afford 100% meat dogfood, because dogs eat a lot.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#107

Post by leobg »

londons_explore wrote: post #105
someotherperson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to an exhibit of an excavation of an old (4th/5th century) settlement in the Adriatic and it detailed every single skeleton pulled out of the different cemeteries. The interesting part for me was that almost every single one of them had bad teeth -- caries and periodontitis.

Go back another 2000 years or so, and nearly every one has great teeth... The switch of grain-based diets is suspected to be a big part of the cause.

AFAIK, Ötzi (3230 BC) had cavities.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#108

Post by Traubenfuchs »

bmau5 wrote: post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

Scared of biofilms? Just take ambroxol, acetylcysteine and Loratadine.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#109

Post by thelittleone »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #80
miketery wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of foods do you recommend? I've heard good things about yogurt, cottage cheese, and kimchi; but don't know for certain.

It appears that probiotic foods are beneficial in isolation, but my recent reading (no singular source) indicates that it’s far more effective when combined with a varied and high fibre diet. It seems like you can do great without the probiotics too, and only ensure you have a good quantity and diversity of high fibre foods in your diet. This seems to be the cornerstone of enriching and sustaining gut biodiversity. A…

These are pretty consistent with mine however I'm on keto so I avoid oats / carbs.

I like to add fermented foods such as pickled vegetables, sauerkraut, kimchi before meat and fat. Some insoluble fiber occasionally also such as psyllium husk. Quality of stool is a key gut health indicator so I keep a close eye on how my diet impacts that... but I don't keep a log! :-)

Avocados, walnuts, macadamias (amazing fat profile), pecans. Getting a variety of leafy greens each day.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#110

Post by labster »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #103
upsidesinclude wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feed your dogs kibble? It is not a natural diet. Horses likewise are typically eating a very unnatural diet, typically hay. These are both perfect examples of a analogous diet to modern human diet. The difference being that they are animals and have no ability to correct for poor dietary "choices" with proper maintenance. I agree, however, with your self assessment.

> I agree, however, with your self assessment. Didn’t take long to go from glib self deprecation to judgy spectator sport. Okay holier than thou pet owner, you tell me how I’m supposed to not feed my pup kibble. She has a prescription low fat diet and there are two vendors total who supply the prescription. One supplies only kibble. The other supplies kibble and canned food. She will only eat a few bites of the canne…

The natural diet of dogs is table scraps. They’ve been eating human leftovers for thousands of years.
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