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Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

penntoday.upenn.edu

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Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#61

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #39
fbdab103 wrote: post #20

Years ago, I recall reading about a putative Cavity Vaccine which was a bateriophage which targeted the tiny fraction of species present in the mouth responsible for tooth decay. Supposedly, a one time inoculation would confer lifelong protection. It has been decades and I have not heard anything more about this. Big Dentist keeping the research down or was there some "in mice" kind of gotcha which limited the treatm…

I tracked down the guy who invented this, if this is the version you're thinking of, and wrote him. It wasn't a vaccine so much as it was a replacement of your oral flora and fauna with a non-cavity causing bacteria. This was maybe twelve years ago, but he said essentially that the FDA really really really didn't like the idea, and he had to sell off bits and pieces of the concept.

Mind emailing me (email on my profile) all details that you dug up?

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#62

Post by colordrops »

bmau5 wrote: post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

Doesn't arginine also stimulate the herpes virus? Seems that integrating it into diets could have the opposite of the intended effect for some people.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#63

Post by colordrops »

Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth. No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right. And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities. I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor…

I had the opposite experience. 9 cavities in my youth, and my brother had more. My two sons, 7 and 10, have perfect dental health. We are vegan and do eat less sweets than others, but it's not zero, and there is significant sugar in our diet. We've never used fluoride toothpaste but we have been very rigorous in teaching them how to properly floss and brush, and have almost never missed doing it.

I would have thought something changed in the opposite direction in the last 30 years.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#64

Post by clumsysmurf »

bmau5 wrote: post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

What do you think of mouth washes that contains Cetylpyridinium Chloride (CPC)? I was reading they may help inactivate SARS-Cov-2 in saliva. I wonder though about (1) killing everything in the mouth or (2) providing oral probiotics (I take one from Life Extension).

"Cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC), a quaternary ammonium compound, which is present in mouthwash, is effective against bacteria, fungi, and enveloped viruses. ... Interestingly, we found that low concentrations of CPC suppressed the infectivity of human isolated SARS-CoV-2 strains (Wuhan, Alpha, Beta, and Gamma) even in saliva."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18367-6

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34282982/

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#65

Post by janef0421 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth. No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right. And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities. I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor…

Maybe you're doing too much and that's resulting in an unhealthy oral microbiota? I would imagine these microbes have a symbiotic relationship with us, similar to gut bacteria.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#66

Post by colordrops »

Waterluvian wrote: post #45
sidlls wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be something has changed, or else something else is at work. I had wretched teeth throughout my youth and through my late 20s. I have 8 or 9 crowns maybe 16 teeth, a few with fillings; some were pulled for orthodontic work. Then about 10 years ago I stopped regular dental hygiene practices: I brush my teeth once a day (most days) and rarely floss. Haven't had a "watch" in years since I dropped the practice of f…

I’ve flirted with conspiracy-like thoughts on the dental industry and how they might be “confidently wrong” about things the way the rest of the medical industry famously has been on numerous topics over the centuries. I wondered (with absolutely no basis in fact) things like, “maybe the calcified tartar forms a barrier?”

I'm pretty convinced that fluoride is not needed in water or toothpaste. My family of four uses reverse osmosis to remove fluoride from tap, and have used fluoride-free toothpaste for the last 10 years. We all have impeccable dental health despite regular sugar in our diets, but we do practice strict flossing and brushing.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#67

Post by [deleted] »

fbdab103 wrote: post #20

Years ago, I recall reading about a putative Cavity Vaccine which was a bateriophage which targeted the tiny fraction of species present in the mouth responsible for tooth decay. Supposedly, a one time inoculation would confer lifelong protection. It has been decades and I have not heard anything more about this. Big Dentist keeping the research down or was there some "in mice" kind of gotcha which limited the treatm…

[deleted]

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#68

Post by [deleted] »

fbdab103 wrote: post #20

Years ago, I recall reading about a putative Cavity Vaccine which was a bateriophage which targeted the tiny fraction of species present in the mouth responsible for tooth decay. Supposedly, a one time inoculation would confer lifelong protection. It has been decades and I have not heard anything more about this. Big Dentist keeping the research down or was there some "in mice" kind of gotcha which limited the treatm…

[deleted]

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#69

Post by jh00ker »

at_a_remove wrote: post #39
fbdab103 wrote: post #20

Years ago, I recall reading about a putative Cavity Vaccine which was a bateriophage which targeted the tiny fraction of species present in the mouth responsible for tooth decay. Supposedly, a one time inoculation would confer lifelong protection. It has been decades and I have not heard anything more about this. Big Dentist keeping the research down or was there some "in mice" kind of gotcha which limited the treatm…

I tracked down the guy who invented this, if this is the version you're thinking of, and wrote him. It wasn't a vaccine so much as it was a replacement of your oral flora and fauna with a non-cavity causing bacteria. This was maybe twelve years ago, but he said essentially that the FDA really really really didn't like the idea, and he had to sell off bits and pieces of the concept.

OMG! I came here to post a question asking if anyone remembered this, thinking surely someone in the HN crowd familiar with it would see this post and click into the comments! Where can we learn more about it?

I heard about it sometime between mid-2006 and late-2009.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#70

Post by idealmedtech »

colordrops wrote: post #62
bmau5 wrote: post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

Doesn't arginine also stimulate the herpes virus? Seems that integrating it into diets could have the opposite of the intended effect for some people.

Interactions like these are why medicine always feels 30 years behind technology.
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