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Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

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Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#91

Post by mupuff1234 »

anonyme-honteux wrote: post #88
mupuff1234 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I wouldn't call it a myth because it's actually true. Plus the Asian Americans grouping actually consists of dozen of different origins, so viewing them as just one model minority is quite deceiving when we're actually talking about a very diverse group. And perhaps it's not an argument against racism, but I don't see why it's not an argument against your claim that racism is the root cause of inequality when yo…

Have you asked asian americans if they like to be displayed as the model minority? I mean in Europe jews are the model minority, it's obviously true now, it was not the case before as we all know.

I don't see how it's relevant if they want to be displayed that way or not. Also, as I already mentioned I think it's wrong to group such a diverse population into a single grouping, so I'm not sure who is the "they" you are referring to? Chinese immigrants? Indian immigrants? Maybe Iranian immigrants?

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#92

Post by hackeraccount »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #6

Is there any industrialized, developed nation that is worse than the U.S.A. in this regard? I heard bad things about the U.K. as well. I turns out that having next to no social security, no accessible education for the poor and the bizarre legality of “legacy scholarships” has a certain effect. How is it possible, I ask, that U.S.A. universities openly and notoriously give favorable treatment to the children of past…

The US Federal budge is something like 5 trillion dollars. 15% or 20% is spent on the military and another 10% is spent on debt servicing. The rest is pretty much Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Add to that what the US States spend which is again mostly social programs and education for the poor.

There's an idea out there that the U.S. is some sort 'red in tooth and claw' Nation that's one step off anarchy. That may or may not be the case but it's not for lack of spending; whether that spending is being done wisely is another question but it's hard to say it's not being done at all.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#93

Post by Volundr »

charcircuit wrote: post #22
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outcome should still be proportional to effort and skill however. There are many top-heavy systems where the top benefits far more than the middle even though the middle is close to as good. Consider sporting events where the second place receives 1/3 of the price of the winner, even if it was a very close finals. Yes, the winner played better, but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings.

>but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings It's a close finals because of the difference in reward between 1st and 2nd. If they were the same then the finals match would not matter financially as whether you win or lose you earn the same amount.

I'm not advocating for a flat pay structure for athletes, but if you think the world class athletes only give it their all because they'll get paid more, you have a pretty distorted view of athletes.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#94

Post by sidewndr46 »

eesmith wrote: post #74
sidewndr46 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to George W. getting admitted to Yale, it's a private institution. They can do basically whatever they want.

Of all the people whose received preferential treatment for college admissions due to family connections, why do you think anyone is singling out the former president? Yale cannot do "basically whatever they want". For example, they accept students who receive federal financial assistance so must follow Title IX requirements. The government could use the same power of the purse to reduce legacy admissions. Since you…

Because it is the most notorious case? I don't think anyone who has listened to George W talk could make the argument "Yeah, this guy is an shining example of Yale!"

You misinterpret my statement "whatever they want" as some sort of collegiate equivalent of a "license to kill". Presently, Yale chooses to engage with federal funding in a variety of ways. They can stop doing that if they want to, thus dropping their obligations.

But furthermore, realize that a student would need to prove that legacy admissions somehow violates Title IX if they wanted to end the process. The members of the various courts that would ultimately decide that case are the same families that benefit from legacy admissions.

Also it's really weird to bring up Alexander v. Yale. If you actually read into the decision most of the plaintiffs allegations were simply dismissed.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#96

Post by eesmith »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #94
eesmith wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all the people whose received preferential treatment for college admissions due to family connections, why do you think anyone is singling out the former president? Yale cannot do "basically whatever they want". For example, they accept students who receive federal financial assistance so must follow Title IX requirements. The government could use the same power of the purse to reduce legacy admissions. Since you…

Because it is the most notorious case? I don't think anyone who has listened to George W talk could make the argument "Yeah, this guy is an shining example of Yale!" You misinterpret my statement "whatever they want" as some sort of collegiate equivalent of a "license to kill". Presently, Yale chooses to engage with federal funding in a variety of ways. They can stop doing that if they want to, thus dropping their ob…

I had no idea it was a notorious case. If I did, after 13 years that memory has faded.

Do a search for "legacy admissions", like https://hn.algolia.com/?q=legacy+admissions and see how rarely people mention Bush.

I've heard much more about minorities at prestigious colleges are viewed as being there as the result of affirmative action, while legacy students ... aren't.

Or how those schools offer scholarships for athletes in water polo, tennis, sailing, rowing, and other sports which more accessible to affluent white kids.

Hence the question "How is it possible, I ask, that U.S.A. universities openly and notoriously give favorable treatment to the children of past alumni without this being shut down by the lawmaker or the courts?"

> thus dropping their obligations

Except the question was, why isn't that practice illegal? Responding with something like "because it's legal" isn't that insightful.

> somehow violates Title IX

I wasn't making that argument. If it were that easy, it would be done long ago.

I was pointing out that the fed can also use the power of the purse to change things, even if the courts say separation of powers prevents a direct law.

> it's really weird to bring up Alexander v. Yale

What benefited Bush more, legacy admission or rampant sexism that prevented half the population from being able to apply?

In any case, "Although the women did not win their case, they achieved their objectives: Yale instituted a grievance procedure and a court held that sexual harassment constituted sex discrimination. ... As a result of Alexander v. Yale most U.S. universities instituted grievance procedures for sexual harassment."

Lost the battle and won the war.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#98

Post by charcircuit »

Volundr wrote: post #93
charcircuit wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings It's a close finals because of the difference in reward between 1st and 2nd. If they were the same then the finals match would not matter financially as whether you win or lose you earn the same amount.

I'm not advocating for a flat pay structure for athletes, but if you think the world class athletes only give it their all because they'll get paid more, you have a pretty distorted view of athletes.

I've watched first hand teams change their playstyle depending on how much prize money is available. It's the difference between playing to have fun and playing super sweaty.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#99

Post by thinkcontext »

murderfs wrote: post #48
thinkcontext wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to your question is in the US there is less economic mobility than most of its peer countries. https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/02_econ...

Economic mobility studies are interesting, but there's a fundamental issue with the way all of them look at things: they're measuring relative success, not absolute. Of course it's easier to move between deciles if the distribution of income is flat, but the net result of the movement also has less actual impact. It's also zero-sum: everyone moving up from the bottom decile has to be replaced by someone! Overall qual…

The comment I replied to asked about this specific metric.

Beyond that, when I was growing up US superior economic mobility was touted as one of the key characteristics of American greatness. Its been interesting to watch the conservatives that were the biggest cheerleaders for this and other greatness indicators now make excuses when empirical data challenges these myths.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#100

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

xeyownt wrote: post #56
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #50

If compared to the US, isn't Europe spending significantly less on defense? I guess that Europe will spend more now. I think a big defense budget is a factor, the money spent on military hardware doesn't trickle down through the economy, as far as I know.

You mean that US has more inequality than EU because they spend more on defense?

yes, investment in any other area benefits the whole economy - like infrastructure or education. Military hardware is very specialized, for example you can't use the armor of a tank for any other purpose. Also the price of military equipment tends to be very high, some say it's artificially high. It generates huge profits, but only to the benefit of few people. This in turn is pushing inequality.

However if you don't invest enough in these thing, then you stand the chance of running into real problem. However it is hard to tell what the right balance is...

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