Agile sprints might as well have been designed to facilitate quiet quitting.
Quiet Quitting
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Re: Quiet Quitting
#92The Cousin to "quiet quitting" is a culture of "immediate gratification".
The number of quick-fix, no-code, RAD tools that are delivered via SaaS are experiencing amazing growth.
Front line Information Workers are increasingly conditioned to use the cloud for solutions. Managers are quick to approve budget for these tools. Is this working smarter? More resourceful? Or just lazy?
Whatever the conclusion, the Hacker community can turn this into a thousand opportunities.
Re: Quiet Quitting
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, its a weird terminology to use. Quit/Quitting typically has only one well-understood meaning ! "Quiet quitting" strikes me as being more like what was traditionally called "Work To Rule" in union circles.
I remember work to rule well. As a kid my teachers union were going through negotiations and on the verge of striking and we got to see first hand what that's like. Turns out all those sports and extra curricular activities your kids enjoy in school aren't in the contract. Same with staying late and providing any extra help, or supporting anything like a school dance. The contract is just show up, lecture, mark homew…
FWIW: I taught high school English for about ten years. In addition to my regular 40 hrs, I routinely prepped, marked up writing, etc for an additional 15-20 hours per week.
I left in June and took a new job at a small tech consultancy here in Minneapolis. Teaching is a special job in many ways, but the material benefits of exiting education are stark (at least for me).
Re: Quiet Quitting
#94There has been an erosion and change in the nature of the employee-employer relationship. Back in the day that the author initially started working, the nature of the relationship was probably much more balanced: the employee got a decent wage, was trusted to fulfil their duties with reasonable concessions and freedom (sometimes possibly doing overtime if necessary, but also being able to leave early on days when the…
I think the basis of your comment is incorrect. Employees have never had more freedom. Work from home is now widespread. Working hours are more flexible than ever. Workplace benefits have improved drastically over the last 10 years. Percentage of workers with access to maternity/paternity leave is increasing year-over-year. > There has been an erosion and change in the nature of an employee-employer relationship. Thi…
>Work from home is now widespread.
It's not. Look beyond the HN bubble. Where applicable, hybrid is the status quo, and hybrid is still a far cry from complete WFH. Traffic jams certainly speak of the opposite.
As long as most individuals are limited by their location regardless of legal issues, WFH is not widespread.
>Working hours are more flexible than ever.
Marginally. Most places still have core business hours and soft-enforce synchronicity. A lot of this also happens naturally thanks to pushing daily standups or whatever the equivalent is in another branch around the late morning, in a way that requires participants to look presentable.
>Workplace benefits have improved drastically over the last 10 years
Eeh.. questionable, really depends on the context. And that's without mentioning the obvious: benefits exempted from tax vs straight cash.
>Percentage of workers with access to maternity/paternity leave is increasing year-over-year.
True, with the obvious caveat that one-and-a-half income households are practically required to even start a family now. Those benefits are primarily a countermeasure to the issue of having any of the two parents spend time with kids, and paternity leave in particular tackles the "issue" of moms quitting work.
>Knowledge workers/tech have enjoyed a hot market where recruiters largely come to them once.
I fail to see how you make this conclusion. The service industry exploded and with them, recruiters. Recruiters got to eat too. It's nigh on zero effort to cold call or post something, either directed or undirected. Alternatives exist, but the culture of recruiters as middlemen has firmly taken root. Even managers tend to complain about their existence.
Meanwhile, job ads have noticeably blown up in demands over the past few decades. Every job went from requiring a bachelor if not a master, when most individuals could do with a few months and proper documentation. On top of that we have YoE for starters (wtf) and a giant wishlist of skills with no rhyme or reason. Despite your claim of demand and supply, competition is far more fierce than before, with popular companies getting their ridiculous wish list job ads blown up.
Re: Quiet Quitting
#95Not to be rude but a 50+ years old who works at CERN for 20 years and probably is paid X times the min wage _will_ not understand the mindset of quiet quitters
These people haven't "worked" a day in their lives, either because they pursue their dreams or because they have extremely comfortable working situations. Same people who ask construction workers to work until 65/67 years old. "if I can do it everybody can", yeah no sorry we're not all pursuing our dreams and getting paid $$$ for it
Re: Quiet Quitting
#96I finally 'quiet quit' when I realized being a minority in tech means I'll never break the glass ceiling past senior engineer regardless of how hard I work or how visibly I help. Even in school I was shoved into secretarial work until I finally convinced professors to let me work solo and would smoke entire groups. People for some reason think I am good enough to interview for lead or architect then seem surprised wh…
> a minority in tech
Curious how so... I've been in "tech" for 30 years and as a non-Indian U.S. citizen, I've always been in the "minority" of actual tech employees.
Re: Quiet Quitting
#97I am seeing this happening on multiple occasions in my career. One: there was this engineer I in my sister team. They put in just enough effort to get by and not to get pipped. They were not incompetent, I would argue the opposite. I thought they were lazy for doing minimal amount of work to get by while I was putting in 200% for the customers. Fast forward a couple of years, I couldn’t get to the promotion I needed the most. They retired and then retreated to a LCL area. Looking back, I would admire them for being conscious about work.
Second: current team, there is this employee who has been with the firm for over 18 years. They are in product management, not an engineer. Recently performance review questioned why they stay at that role for so long: was that because of complacency or just incompetence? Their manager answers that they are good of what they’ve been doing for over 15 years, but have no motivation for moving up because they care more about work life balance and family relationships. They were put to pip next quarter.
Those two experiences have shaped my perception of work very much. Especially the 2nd one, where I was involved in the performance review. I see all the nasty side of management and stack ranking system designed to screwed employees, albeit they are doing a decent jobs. I’m still pushing for my promotion everyday. But, I no longer am invested emotionally heavily in that rat race. If I am to be promoted next time, it is great. If not, it’s not because I’m incompetent, just quiet quitting.
Peace and take care of your health, fellows.
Re: Quiet Quitting
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You know how many raises I got without changing jobs? Zero. You know how many promotions I got? Zero. You know how many bonuses I got? Zero. You know how much more work I got assigned? A TON. And this is the problem - even away from SV. It was recently suggested to me that the only way to earn more in my current company is if I ended up managing a team (purpose not defined, reasoning unclear). I'm in a great compan…
What irks me most about this no-raise mentality is that you make less effective money year over year than your starting salary due to inflation but your value to the company has increased from experience and institutional knowledge.
Damn, I felt that.
Re: Quiet Quitting
#99There has been an erosion and change in the nature of the employee-employer relationship. Back in the day that the author initially started working, the nature of the relationship was probably much more balanced: the employee got a decent wage, was trusted to fulfil their duties with reasonable concessions and freedom (sometimes possibly doing overtime if necessary, but also being able to leave early on days when the…
I think the basis of your comment is incorrect. Employees have never had more freedom. Work from home is now widespread. Working hours are more flexible than ever. Workplace benefits have improved drastically over the last 10 years. Percentage of workers with access to maternity/paternity leave is increasing year-over-year. > There has been an erosion and change in the nature of an employee-employer relationship. Thi…
WFH is more widespread, but have you seen all those videos and memes of people attaching their mouse to a fan or whatever so their employer can't see that they're stepping away from their laptop? That would be unthinkable at my cushy tech job, but some employers are clearly using it as an opportunity for even more employee surveillance and asserting more control over their employees' time.
Re: Quiet Quitting
#100> This concept is illustrated by a video that has gone viral on social media. “You are still performing your duties but you’re no longer subscribing to the hustle culture mentality that work has to be your life,” the young man in the video says. They really needed a word to describe having a rational (as in rational self-interest) attitude towards work.
How about "quiet working" instead of quitting?
Working. Just working.