Does it mean Indians are not smart? Of course it doesn't! It's just that most Indians who actually are smart either transport themselves to the States or end up in the Indian branches of companies like Microsoft or Oracle. Only the absolute bottom rung of barely-competent people end up in software outsourcing companies and that is why you get such POSes out of them. And don't even get me started on the call-center recruits!
Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
131–140 of 143 posts
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's his point. Outsourcing doesn't eliminate your responsibility as a customer to participate in the development process -- it just shifts part of the labor to another entity. Telling an outsourcer "do X for me", where X isn't a well defined thing (ie. run a warehouse, manage windows servers, etc) is going to be a disaster. What does "add a shopping cart of my site" mean? Do you want to figure out sales ta…
Any developer worth their salt would come back with those questions, and work with you to hammer out a spec that they know how to implement.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you would like to hire a decent shop, there are boutiques and larger firms available, but they will charge $40-50/hour, not $15. And at that point it's just easier to hire local developers. I just don't get the push to hire cheap people. Even if you do find someone who is a rock star in the Philippines for cheap they might work for 3-6 months before job hopping again. Any sizable business is going to have systems…
And at that point it's just easier to hire local developers. No it isn't. Even if you're in the Bay Area, the local talent pool is small, as demand outweighs supply. If you're not Google, or Facebook, or a startup with the potential of being the next Google or Facebook, then you'll get scraps.
[1] I've never interviewed at any of those so maybe I'm scraps. Every company I've worked for though is still using my software internally to make them better than their competitors.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#134Look around you and you will find that most American companies hire lots of Indians as programmers. Do you think that the guys who ended up coming to America suddenly transmogrified in to competent programmers during their flight across the ocean? Do you think that those Indian engineers who decided to stay back and work in India are any less competent than the ones who took the flight? Having worked in both India an…
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#135Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#136Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#137So, when I budgeted $25k they would come in at $28k, etc. What did I learn from the process? None of them had a clue as to what I wanted despite my having 20 page build sheets, exact specifications of how it would work, etc. And the amazing thing is that this project is a version of what has been around for 10 plus years. Decided to finally use a firm in the bay area that outsources and that isnt going smoothly either.
As another example, look at the portfolio of the guy who blogged about outsourcing in the original post. Does he appear to have skills. Not from his portfolio. But he thinks he does. Don
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that he won't. There seems to be a strong societal and cultural pressure working against people that want to go into business for themselves. My Dad thinks I'm a bonehead for spending my time at startups and such even though I've tried explaining how working at a large corporation can suck your soul out. I'm pretty sure its not just my Dad and immediate family.
Isn't that little anecdotal? Yes agreed there is, social bias against people who want to do start up. But I see many people coming up against that and starting up their own startups. Agreed majority are still sweating in IT services, but we don't expect them to do startups anyways. In fact, If OP was able to hire a single guy who is good and works remotely, that single guy is 100% startup material (otherwise, he woul…
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want to outsource to India, you need to find a company that hires super stars. Super stars in India demand a salary of Rs50,000 to Rs 100,000 a month. Which is still quite less from international point of view: its about $1000 to $2000 a month. A company hiring them will bill you a minimum of $20-30 per hour. Usually more like $40-45 per hour. If you go with a company that is billing you less than that from In…
It is less from Western point of view not from international. I'm sure that in Latin America and Eastern Europe prices are quite similar and time zone differences are more acceptable. India lose in this price range because of cultural differences as well. Usually those are small details like matching Christian and/or international holidays (therefore no conflicting days off) but sum of those details are really signif…
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#140Look around you and you will find that most American companies hire lots of Indians as programmers. Do you think that the guys who ended up coming to America suddenly transmogrified in to competent programmers during their flight across the ocean? Do you think that those Indian engineers who decided to stay back and work in India are any less competent than the ones who took the flight? Having worked in both India an…
The suck in outsourcing doesn't come from the location you outsource to. It comes from hiring bottom of the barrel programmers embedded within a large bureaucracy.