Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

content.events.ccc.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 143 posts

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#111

Post by kmeisthax »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #107
exolymph wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Satire" isn't the right designation — it's trolling, which is related but distinct (and permits but does not require sincerity).

At some point in the future, people will be studying and analyzing 4chan trolling the way they analyzed British political satire rags of the 1800s. It is a new form of writing, though. Satire, today, is thought of as something that is known to be false, while trolling seems to be characterized by a sort of "stochastic truth" where the author is purposely ambiguous about whether they believe it or not. It lets the aut…

Political satire being taken as truth[0] comes with the territory. In fact, that's kind of the implicit joke. We laugh at every politician that reads an Onion article and thinks they need to rally the wagons to stop the $8bn Planned Parenthood Abortionplex. It is a rhetorical prank on the rich and powerful.

The problem with 4chan political trolling is that they always use the same fucking joke and there's no underlying satire to pick up upon. "Here's some people who don't fit in to the default social mold, now laugh and mock." This isn't satire, there's no rhetorical prank. This is just pissing in an ocean of piss. Even treating the board as a whole performative art piece is just running the OneJoke recursively against a large swath of probably-white, possibly-poor, definitely autistic people.

There is no ambiguity of truth. The people who treated /pol/ as satire up and left decades ago. The only people who remain are true believers interested in hurting people, including themselves.

[0] Also known as "eating The Onion"

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#112

Post by google234123 »

farhaven wrote: post #31
sprash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Who is this "Antifa" that you talk about? Are they in the room with us right now? Calling the CCC a fascist organization is a pretty hot take that I haven't come across yet, I'll give you that, but as they say "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".

If you work at a large company and live in a large city then there are probably some in the room with you. Just spend a little time on twitter, people are proud to self identify as such.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#113

Post by makeva »

patcon wrote: post #56
lima wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed in principle, but 37C3 is a volunteer-run event. Admission fees are low and (barely) cover expenses.

Disclaimer: runs free events, where organizers are volunteers, in which we're still trying to find sponsorship money for small speaker honorariums. While I'm grateful to ccc organizers and understand that things are sometimes clearer and easier without the distorting effects of money... I think defaulting to offering an honorarium to speakers is really healthy. The cultural baseline can easily be set to that any "fin…

I understand your point but the Congress is not really a typical conference where ideas flow from speakers to attendees.

Instead everyone is expected to contribute ideas (and even physically as a volunteers)

The talks are actually only a part of the whole things and the main track talks (for which this CFP is for I assume) are only a part of the talks (the rest are organized by assemblies)

It's very different to usual IT conf, even compared to FOSDEM.

(Not part of the orga, this is only my understanding as an attendee)

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#114

Post by froh »

O__________O wrote: post #35
q3k wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important elements of the submission (abstract and description) are there. There's no reason to try to 'game' this, just submit a good talk proposal on a topic that aligns with the focus tracks of the conference. The CfP is handled by people who are able to tell apart a bullshit talk with a well-written proposal from a good talk with a proposal written by someone inexperienced. :)

Mainly just curious what gets submitted as is, since guessing a lot of people have no idea what to expect and seeing prior examples would significantly reduce that gap. (Also swear I have seen something like blog post that showed this before, but unable to find it.)

you'll find plenty of CCC talks on YouTube.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#116

Post by lbotos »

nmilo wrote: post #109
codethief wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To use a simile, the current level of ML/AI music is about on par with a precocious elementary student with a basic understanding of an Akai MPC. Uhhmm… https://www.beethovenx-ai.com/

And how much training and guiding did that take? It's not like they hit "generate" and the first try made some good music. This definitely took a ton of human guidance and curation.

Does more guidance == less valuable? I don't think so.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#117

Post by blueflow »

super256 wrote: post #60
black_puppydog wrote: post #45

Funny to see a bunch of (quickly flagged) comments that show a clear misunderstanding of what the German hacker scene is and wants. Besides not being a monolith and this being amenable to labeling as such, it's still in many parts different from many other hacker scenes. The CCC has always had the ambition (and backing credentials/skills) to be a political movement as much as a technological one. In fact that's the o…

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

I left in 2018 for a similar reason. People there got really strict about what is an acceptable opinion and what not. I'm a person who is quick to say what i think, and sometimes its nonsense, and i feel most comfortable in environments where people can point out where you have the flaw in your thinking.

The scene around CCC is not like that. If you challenge some thinking there, people will feel threatened and will start looking for reasons to have you removed. The escalation with VC was another iteration of that, but not the first i witnessed.

Some Erfa's are still good, but my local one isn't, and after 34C3, i think the congress isn't, either. The CrewCrew secret police thing is still creeping me out.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#118

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway35c3 wrote: post #98
dijit wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very new information to me and I followed the drama closely at the time as I have friends on both sides. I would appreciate a citation as nobody has mentioned anti-trans posters. What was mentioned is that there had been conflict the year before and that Vincent was told he wasn’t welcome, which was the root of the escalation.

There were threads in 4chan /g/ around 35c3. Hard to find the photos now, but "Trans aren't real girls wake up 35c3" post with the number "69115371" is in the thread: https://archive.ph/ki6Un See other posts to get the impression. cock.li, /g/, 4chan joint assembly printed and spammed these posters and their logo (you can see it in the OP post thumbnail) all around and were explicitly told not to organize an assembly…

[deleted]

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#119

Post by anigbrowl »

super256 wrote: post #75
Dunedan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. I'm not familiar with what happened there, but at least to me these domain names are definitely not "clearly sarcastic".

> I'm not familiar with what happened there, but at least to me these domain names are definitely not "clearly sarcastic". Have you taken a look at the website? [1] You should be able to detect that the site is satire within a few seconds. Of course, we could dig up the whole “what is satire, what is x-ism” controversy up again, like after the Charlie Hebdo shooting. But I do believe that it's a joke, especially when…

Why is cock.li trolling but the CCC is serious business? Perhaps they were just giving him a wedgie for ironic reasons.

My point is here is that it's very easy to fall into a pattern of 'it's satire when I do it to you, but it's cancel culture* when you do it to me'. I don't think of (or even about) the cock.li admin as a fascist particularly, but I'd be very surprised if he wasn't fully aware that his domain is very popular with fascist trolls and used for quick and easy sockpuppet manufacture and has been for years. You could believe in the importance of making anonymous email widely accessible and keep doing that, without necessarily pandering to the worst of examples of the people who use your service.

* or whatever the equivalent moral outrage of the moment is.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#120

Post by anigbrowl »

super256 wrote: post #64
medlazik wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fac|rac|sex-ist"s must absolutely be called as such first thing in order to end the discussion. Characterized, ignored, deplatformed.

No, because it takes priority over the question of truth or falsity, and it outweighs everything else the person has done. Regardless how positive its impact has been.

Oh, like when some random person who is just trying to get by is subjected to slurs based on some aspect of their identity.

I could take the argument you made in a parallel thread and say that people who feel upset at being labeled fascist or racist or sexist could just choose not to be offended. Why is the question of truth/falsity suddenly so important when it impacts them, whereas it's irrelevant when they wish to make satirical/ironic statements that may or may not impact others?

Post reply on HN