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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#341

Post by Jcowell »

buzzwords wrote: post #77
pjc50 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pool is not of a fixed size, and there's no evidence of women being paid a premium to fulfil a quota. Conversely, there's plenty of evidence of both individual and systematic discrimination against women candidates and women "thought leaders" in tech.

Oh wow, really? So the women in tech is a growing pool? Enough to stop companies paying premium to fulfil quotas?

No it’s that companies aren’t paying a premium to fulfill quotas in the first place. The “quota” hire is being paid the same salary that a “non-quota” hire would.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#342

Post by steveBK123 »

tatpacc wrote: post #328
steveBK123 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many years ago I worked at big dumb banks. There was a lot of top down forced offshoring with ultimatums like - hey you can have +4 headcount in Mumbai or +0 in NY. Further, we found we had to spend $10Ks at a time to send NY/London staff over there monthly to figure out wtf was going on. These offshoring firms were running some serious scams. We once had a guy come back (mid 2000s) and say that his 5 devs in Hyderab…

> With the turnover of good staff, the only way to keep the better ones was to get the visas sorted to nearshore them in US > largely defeating the purpose of the cost saving. agree on most part including that onshore billing is obvious more than offshore but still for client it's saving as oppose to hiring FTE. Often client also want good resource to stick so they allow them to move to onsite. In my case, we informe…

Yes when viewed this way it can be an alternative recruiting pipeline for good nearshore staff. It would be better to just directly recruit this way and skip the middle man consulting firms taking so much margin and having to hire teams of 20-30 to poach the top 5 nearshore.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#343

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

NoraCodes wrote: post #325
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a rich black American kid" implies, at least to me, that our hypothetical Asian student isn't American blink

Well, why call that out in a hypothetical if it's not a difference? If GP had called out the hypothetical Asian student's height or weight or video game preference but not the hypothetical black student's, I would have assumed that was significantly different as well.

There's no way you seriously used the existence of a rich black family in the same locale as an asian as evidence that it wasn't in the US.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#344

Post by sumeno »

jwond wrote: post #311
sumeno wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when a privileged group begins to face a more equitable situation they often feel discriminated against, it doesn't make it true. White men still have incredible advantages in this industry and the half hearted diversity initiatives in the industry haven't changed that at all.

Treating people differently on the basis of race or sex is discrimination. Equity is explicitly about trying to force equality of outcome between different groups by discriminating against groups that have been deemed privileged and in favor of groups that have been deemed oppressed.

If I help an elderly person across the street am I discriminating against the young?

Are VA hospitals discriminating against non-veterans?

If my neighbor's house is on fire is the fire department discriminating against me when they don't spray my house with water?

We make accomodations for people in society all the time, it doesn't mean we are discriminating against people who aren't part of that group.

Hiring practices in our industry have historically, and still do, overwhelmingly benefit white men. Making accomodations for other people to reduce that disparity is not discrimination. You STILL have the overwhelming advantage in the hiring process and are crying discrimination. It's absurd

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#345

Post by ramphastidae »

steveBK123 wrote: post #334
ramphastidae wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate: would he get paid any more to be more efficient? Or would he just get more work?

Sure but I can’t imagine that mindset from an onshore FTE dev, can you? Let me do stuff as slowly as possible so my boss doesn’t give me more work. Can be applied to any job. Refusal to do obvious time saving tasks when instructed to would probably put you on the “does not meet” list next review cycle.

I agree but the reason for the difference is because the “offshore” folks have zero incentive to do so. There’s literally no point beyond keeping their job (and because of the incredibly low bar and compensation, it’s not at all difficult to find another one). They are there to fill seats and hours, not be productive or efficient.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#347

Post by NoraCodes »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #343
NoraCodes wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, why call that out in a hypothetical if it's not a difference? If GP had called out the hypothetical Asian student's height or weight or video game preference but not the hypothetical black student's, I would have assumed that was significantly different as well.

There's no way you seriously used the existence of a rich black family in the same locale as an asian as evidence that it wasn't in the US.

Indeed, there is no way that I did that. GP specified that one of the two was American, and didn't specify that the other was, so I assumed it was a relevant difference.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#348

Post by giantg2 »

ramphastidae wrote: post #345
steveBK123 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but I can’t imagine that mindset from an onshore FTE dev, can you? Let me do stuff as slowly as possible so my boss doesn’t give me more work. Can be applied to any job. Refusal to do obvious time saving tasks when instructed to would probably put you on the “does not meet” list next review cycle.

I agree but the reason for the difference is because the “offshore” folks have zero incentive to do so. There’s literally no point beyond keeping their job (and because of the incredibly low bar and compensation, it’s not at all difficult to find another one). They are there to fill seats and hours, not be productive or efficient.

Even if the client complains, the company won't fire the person. They can just move them to one of their many other projects.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#349

Post by k__ »

phpisthebest wrote: post #104
k__ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversity can foster innovation.

Diversity of world view and human experience foster innovation. If you hire all of the same socioeconomic strata even if they are different races chances are you will not get a wide depth of experience and world view

True, but still better than the alternative.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#350

Post by raincom »

webmobdev wrote: post #2

This seems like a management fuck-up. It's kind of funny because indian outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, etc. have often been accused of hiring a disproportionately high percentage of South Asians and Indians within the United States. In fact, this same company named here (Infosys) has also been earlier accused of favouring asians and not hiring "stupid Americans" - https://arstechnica.com/information-technol…

In this particular case, Infy wanted to hire non-Indians for executive positions so that they can sign more deals.
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