Don't know about CIA conspiracies but I'm sure Saudi Arabians will protest Hijab mandates one day. Freedom is amazing and every human craves it at some level.
Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
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Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's similar with the low quality "drone" footage from the Uyghurs "camps Multiple news organizations have published high quality satellite photos of the Chinese concentration camps for ethnic minorities and Muslims, published the tenders for their construction and interviewed both victims and former jailers who have fled the country. Chinese officials on record boast about the 100s of thousands they have imprisone…
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I can tell you believe this, and I do think it seems possible to me the west over plays it’s hand. Especially the genocide label, but your evidence isn’t exactly strong. You make it sound like Adrian Zenz is a cultist when as far as I can tell he’s just a passionate critic. As to the photos being deepfaked, I only look at a handful. One did look a bit suspicious, none of the others did, and none of them have that vanilla this person isn’t real type look. I also see the fact that China restricts travel to the region as compelling evidence of foul play even if when they occasionally do take people on tours they don’t find anything. Like you do know the Nazis produced lovely videos of concentration camps full have happy people just living out the war or whatever, China is hiding something.
My fairly uninformed guess (and tell me if this seems right to you) is that what’s going on is merely on the level of what the US did to American Indians what with the boarding schools and the forced removal of their children with maybe a touch of forced labor on the side for spice.
But it’s always worth remembering on this subject, only one of these countries tries to have the state capacity to squash dissent so yes I am a bit more skeptical of what their mouth pieces have to tell the world
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's similar with the low quality "drone" footage from the Uyghurs "camps Multiple news organizations have published high quality satellite photos of the Chinese concentration camps for ethnic minorities and Muslims, published the tenders for their construction and interviewed both victims and former jailers who have fled the country. Chinese officials on record boast about the 100s of thousands they have imprisone…
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This is insane.
The human rights violations against Uighurs in Xinjiang are well documented by serious institutions like the UN human rights office.
Read their recent report here: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countrie...
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#34Apart from the usual "this is something important that is happening" (which is not quite HN "intellectual curiosity" territory, what is striking is the use of what I assume is a V for Vendetta mask - with Red and Green daubing. How culture spreads is ... fascinating.
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This has the marks of a colour revolution.
From the false news spread constantly being spread by Masiha Alinejad, to the focus on a small but growing group of protestors, to the massive social media campaigns trying to flame the situation both in and outside of Iran, this is well coordinated.
Mahsa Amini collapsed at a facility and was never hurt. No signs of being beaten are visible on her hospital pictures or her entry into the re-education centers. And yet the protest started from a few handful and started growing over several days.
This is a coordinated campaign of disinformation and protest.
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#35Given the recent split between the USA and Saudi Arabia over crude oil production targets, I wouldn't be surprised to see similar hacking of Saudi news feeds by 'domestic protestors' and a new US State Department focus on 'human rights and democratic reforms in the repressive Saudi dictatorship' coming up pretty quickly. This would be a radical shift from US behavior during the Arab Spring, when the USA gave a wink a…
This is a very simplistic view of the tensions in the region, which have been ongoing for decades. Just as the US has reason to retaliate against Saudi Arabia, many other places could also have reasons to push the ruling family out of power and gain influence.
It also fails to account for the autonomy of the people there. Is it really so hard to believe that they are rebelling against authoritarianism?
Even if there is an interest to empower the people to oust the regime, wouldn't it be fomenting on already existing unhappiness?
Interestingly, the same can be said of unrest anywhere- undoubtedly the agendas of several states will always align with weakening their competitors/adversaries.
When you consider the things everyday people care about and strive for, it can be argued that any party interested in destabilizing another nation would play to those aspirations in such a way as to further their control- this is true of almost everywhere, it is not exclusive to any one people or any one institution, and it can be seen in every region. In any given place, if you take a close look, there are varying levels of influence from foreign powers- often with the goal to secure economic goals or obtain natural resources.
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I live in China, I think if our asses were so clean, we could all go there and even visit these reform camps they said they built and are not at all cruel and inhumane. You can say the foreigners exagerate, sure they do, with their sudden newfound love for muslim people even the worst ayatollahs of the world cant seem to express, but hum, it's not like there's no fire behind all this smoke... However I've always been…
Genocide doesn't mean mass killing.
Just to cite Wikipedia...
> In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That policy never applied to ethnic groups, so the idea that the chinese government is trying to imprison ethnic groups to "re-educate" them is hard to believe I’m trying to understand this paragraph. In your mind, in what way does the one child policy make any of this hard to believe? How does that policy change our understanding of what’s going on in these camps?
If they were against ethnic groups, as the current western propaganda wants us to believe, they would have applied that policy so they'd have less of that "problematic ethnic group" They didn't, which mean they are fine having ethnic groups The west is pushing this propaganda because it's a known fact that the US want to split the Chinese territory (Tibetan, Uighurs, Taiwanese) (same with Russia btw) For the same rea…
Are you aware of the forced marriages to ethnic Han Chinese people? I am having trouble following your logic.
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they were against ethnic groups, as the current western propaganda wants us to believe, they would have applied that policy so they'd have less of that "problematic ethnic group" They didn't, which mean they are fine having ethnic groups The west is pushing this propaganda because it's a known fact that the US want to split the Chinese territory (Tibetan, Uighurs, Taiwanese) (same with Russia btw) For the same rea…
Taiwan is not part of China. There’s nothing for the US to split.
I have never met a single person that isn’t a Chinese propogandaist that actually believes Taiwan is a part of China. It’s such an obvious calling card.
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#39Apart from the usual "this is something important that is happening" (which is not quite HN "intellectual curiosity" territory, what is striking is the use of what I assume is a V for Vendetta mask - with Red and Green daubing. How culture spreads is ... fascinating.
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The questions surrounding the involvement of foreign actors are interesting meanly because of the timing. It’s interesting that Iran see a vague of mass protests right after the utter failure of the nuclear talks and when they are admittedly very close to getting the bomb. Plenty of foreign powers therefore have an interest into seeing the current regime fall down and have historically never been above giving a gentle push in the right direction. It wouldn’t in any way make the reasons of the protests illegitimate however.
Now, I don’t really understand why you bring Al Qaeda and the Uyghurs to the mix. That needlessly muddies your point.
Re: Protests in Iran: State-run live TV hacked by protesters
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in China, I think if our asses were so clean, we could all go there and even visit these reform camps they said they built and are not at all cruel and inhumane. You can say the foreigners exagerate, sure they do, with their sudden newfound love for muslim people even the worst ayatollahs of the world cant seem to express, but hum, it's not like there's no fire behind all this smoke... However I've always been…
Genocide doesn't mean mass killing. Just to cite Wikipedia... > In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, prev…
Well, but that isn’t the definition tend to think of right? They do think mass killing, it’s part of why the word has such power. If it was merely portrayed as the Chinese working to forcibly convert Muslims a lot of the US would shrug and say that seems good