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ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

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Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#141

Post by dehrmann »

blowski wrote: post #68
ok123456 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bing: Macbook Butterfly Keyboard Failure. In reality, modern Macbooks have a horrible reputation for repairability and engage in dark patterns to stop you from getting your device repaired even when it is an option.

Counter-point. The company I work for has about 50/50 Macbooks vs Lenovo. We have about 1000 staff, and I've seen similar rates in a company with 5000 staff. Macbooks * 2% fail in first 12 months * 20% need replacing in 3 years Lenovo: * 20% fail in first 12 months. (Surprisingly high number fail out of the box) * 80% need replacing within 3 years I don't want a laptop that's easy to repair as much as a laptop that d…

Which Lenovo lines? Their price points and build quality are all over the place.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#142

Post by pengaru »

jeffbee wrote: post #116
pengaru wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The X230 is nearly identical physically, and you can swap the X220 keyboard onto it. Advantage being 3rd-gen/HD4000 igpu which is Vulkan capable, not available on the X220. This difference makes the X230 far more practical in terms of modern graphics development/environments.

TIL. Honestly it looks like you'd need to do some grinding to get the 220 keyboard into the 230? But that's cool, I did not know. https://download.lenovo.com/Images/Parts/45N2211/1.jpg https://download.lenovo.com/Images/Parts/04X1345/12.jpg

Pretty sure it's just a matter of getting X220 palmrest/plastic trim surround to avoid any alterations. You can find writeups via the obvious searches, here's some such results:

https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Install_Classic_Keyboard_on_x...

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/9cp8pq/x230x220_k...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4_6LQrmu14

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#143

Post by FeistySkink »

gruez wrote: post #21
hericium wrote: post #4

IBM's ThinkPads lasted to this day without having issues. My Lenovo ThinkPad T14s AMD has multiple dead pixels, enter and backspace keys not working at all and completely fucked up USB bridge, resetting devices all the time which results in unsolicited clicks and drag'n'drop or screen selection being unavailable both using mouse and touchpad. "Business laptop" my ass. It's a disgrace to the ThinkPad brand what Lenovo…

>My Lenovo ThinkPad T14s AMD has multiple dead pixels, enter and backspace keys not working at all Sounds like valid reasons to RMA it. Why haven't you done that yet?

I went throught 2 T14 Gen 1 AMD, 3 screens and then gave up. 2020 wasn't great for Lenovo's QA.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#144

Post by rejor121 »

dartharva wrote: post #90
Beta-7 wrote: post #16

It's interesting how the ThinkPads used to be the tech person's™ laptop of choice because of their repairability and extendability, but nowadays most tech people (at least in the professional setting) are using Apple's MacBooks which are the opposite when it comes to repairability and extendability.

When Thinkpads have turned out to be pretty much the same in those terms, you might as well just use the cheaper and more durable product. Apple at least has more confidence in its lines than Lenovo (who wouldn't bother defering drastic changes at the whims of MBA "market researches") does. "Business" laptops have all gone down in a race to the bottom in my opinion. If you want to see innovations in the laptop space…

This is pretty much true. Unfortunately this comes with the downside of high heat from the video card , but I suppose if you buy a gaming laptop for the sole purpose of business, that wouldn’t be a problem.

There are many gaming laptops that are more serviceable than business laptops. However, they also tend to be heavier.

It’s a trade off I guess

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#145

Post by Kamq »

rejor121 wrote: post #144
dartharva wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Thinkpads have turned out to be pretty much the same in those terms, you might as well just use the cheaper and more durable product. Apple at least has more confidence in its lines than Lenovo (who wouldn't bother defering drastic changes at the whims of MBA "market researches") does. "Business" laptops have all gone down in a race to the bottom in my opinion. If you want to see innovations in the laptop space…

This is pretty much true. Unfortunately this comes with the downside of high heat from the video card , but I suppose if you buy a gaming laptop for the sole purpose of business, that wouldn’t be a problem. There are many gaming laptops that are more serviceable than business laptops. However, they also tend to be heavier. It’s a trade off I guess

> However, they also tend to be heavier.

Sure, but 95% of business laptop use is sitting on a desk somewhere.

The other 5% being carried to/from a couple of conference rooms and/or a car.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#146

Post by fsagx »

samatman wrote: post #73
gruez wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the demographic of "tech person" changed. It used to be mostly hardliners back in the days of the thinkpad, but now it's filled with moderates who don't really feel too strongly about repairability and extendability.

I was around in the heyday of the ThinkPad, and this is (mostly) backward. It was always the standard kit of the stereotypical scruffy Linux hacker, but it was mostly just a really good laptop. The connoisseur's choice, reliable, repairable, and IBM would come to you and fix it on the desk if you paid them. A lot of that demographic have switched to MacBooks or one of the many ultrabook-type laptops of a similar desi…

  It was always the standard kit of the stereotypical scruffy Linux hacker
the T40 was the first laptop w/linux combo that I found where everything just worked. Ubuntu 10.4 in my case.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#147

Post by __float »

rjh29 wrote: post #135
legitster wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently typing this from my T450s. My perspective: I love the chiclets. They did a good job. The keys are perfectly shaped to reduce accidental presses. > I don't understand why Lenovo doesn't add an extra 1 mm to the thickness of their laptops Because they are already market leaders on key travel. Why aim for perfection when you are already ahead of everyone else. I agree that I don't like the direction they a…

What's USB0-C? USB-C for power is a huge improvement over their proprietary connector. I can carry one USB-C charger and it works for all of my devices.

It's probably a typo of USB-C? 0 and - are next to each other on many keyboard layouts.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#148

Post by jagger27 »

rjh29 wrote: post #136
jagger27 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they've gone from 2.5 mm in the T420 (2011) to 1.5 mm in the T14 G3 (2022). 1 mm doesn't sound like on paper, but you immediately notice the difference if you switch between them Absolutely correct. For context, typical Cherry MX mechanical keyboard switches have a total travel around 4mm. We’re very sensitive to switch height.

Mechanical keyboard types presumably can't use any laptop keyboard without feeling ill and needing to lie down for a while. The Thinkpad keyboard provides a great typing experience for 99% of people.

Not sure what prompted that kind of snide response. I think most ThinkPad keyboards are lovely to use. All I pointed out is that millimetres and fractions of millimetres are very easy to detect and that the travel difference between the most fancy mechanical switch and even the maligned butterfly switch is only about 3mm. That is to say that travel distance is not the most important metric in what makes a keyboard nice or unpleasant to use.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#149

Post by stereoradonc »

gertlex wrote: post #52

Disappointing article. The picture of the history was neat but small... The author didn't provide any interesting anecdotes whatsoever. Would have been great to read something about "X too longer than expected to implement because Y and Z". There's a book recommended at the end, but I'm certainly led by this article to believe there's much of interest...

Similar reaction; it was a plug to sell the book.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#150

Post by JamesAdir »

least wrote: post #120
squarefoot wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why Lenovo doesn't add an extra 1 mm to the thickness of their laptops, at least it would restore the reputation for typing feel on ThinkPads. Because, after years of advertising made by designers and not by technical people, for most potential buyers more thin = more modern so to remain in the game they have to adapt to the most idiotic trend today: make devices thin as credit cards no matter ho…

Wanting thinner and lighter devices isn't some sort of weird desire only non-technical people want. Computers have gradually miniaturized from something that fits in a warehouse to something that fits into a room in your office into something that fits on people's desks into something that fits in your pocket. And subsequently, the skills required to repair said devices ends up changing. I won't say it's easier or ha…

Today thinnest laptops are much more than just miniaturization. It reminds me the time when Motorola issued a thinner and thinner razr models just because they didn't have any other innovative idea than "thin".

The moment that all the brands started focusing only on who is the thinnest instead of who has more features that's the point that they just ran out of innovative ideas.

Batteries are like car tires, they are expected to need replacing. Why can't I replace them myself and instead have to send the laptop to the lab? Why can't I decide which brand of batteries I want just like in my car? Maybe I want more powerful batteries or maybe I want lighter batteries.

Another issue is that the unrepairabilty of these laptops harms the environment a lot. Lenovo sells now laptops with 8GB and maybe it's acceptable for some uses. But in a year or two, these laptops will have to be thrown to trash cause you can't upgrade the memory in any way. As many mentioned here they have fully working laptops for 5 or even 10 years and that's laptops that saved from the need to buy new ones.

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