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ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

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Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#61

Post by squarefoot »

scrlk wrote: post #24

Sadly they don't make them like they used to. Keyboards and repairability comes to mind. I don't mind the chiclet keycaps, but Lenovo really ruined the keyboard when they went from the 7 row layout [0] to the current 6 row layout [1]. Each new generation of ThinkPad reduces the travel distance of the keyboard - they've gone from 2.5 mm in the T420 (2011) to 1.5 mm in the T14 G3 (2022). 1 mm doesn't sound like on pape…

> I don't understand why Lenovo doesn't add an extra 1 mm to the thickness of their laptops, at least it would restore the reputation for typing feel on ThinkPads.

Because, after years of advertising made by designers and not by technical people, for most potential buyers more thin = more modern so to remain in the game they have to adapt to the most idiotic trend today: make devices thin as credit cards no matter how this would impact their usability, battery life, robustness, repairability etc.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#62

Post by neilv »

lvl102 wrote: post #10

The old school pre-Lenovo keyboards are the best ever made. Nothing even comes close to that feeling.

I'm typing this comment on a T60 keyboard, transplanted into a T500.

IIRC, Lenovo was manufacturing the T60 for IBM, but, by Lenovo T500 time, they seemed to be skimping on the keyboard backing, causing it to flex.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#63

Post by ok123456 »

blowski wrote: post #39
gruez wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the demographic of "tech person" changed. It used to be mostly hardliners back in the days of the thinkpad, but now it's filled with moderates who don't really feel too strongly about repairability and extendability.

I consider the likelihood of needing to repair or extend it within a 6 year lifetime, and I believe the Macbook has by far the best reputation in that regard.

Bing: Macbook Butterfly Keyboard Failure.

In reality, modern Macbooks have a horrible reputation for repairability and engage in dark patterns to stop you from getting your device repaired even when it is an option.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#64

Post by squarefoot »

Hijacking the thread to ask what would you choose as a 12" replacement for a X240. It still works great (using it now) and Linux support is perfect, but I have the chance to buy locally refurbished X270 or X280 devices with 1080 screen at a good price. Are they the best upgrade before going to different models? I believe they are also compatible with the docking station and bigger battery I already have on the 240, which is a bonus. Thanks!

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#65

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

Beta-7 wrote: post #16

It's interesting how the ThinkPads used to be the tech person's™ laptop of choice because of their repairability and extendability, but nowadays most tech people (at least in the professional setting) are using Apple's MacBooks which are the opposite when it comes to repairability and extendability.

As a "tech person" who did a lot of travelling in the late 90s / early 00s, the Thinkpad T series was the workhorse not only because of the repairability (corporate IT teams could easily maintain them) but as an end user, I loved the Thinkpad due to its durability. They were built very well- mine took a lot of abuse while being shoved under airline seats and being bounced around in luggage, having an occasional coffee spilled on them, etc.

Other laptops of the time were absolutely flimsy: Dells, and HP laptops of the time were particularly cheap-feeling, had hinges that broke, had driver issues, and overall didn't have the high quality feel of the T series.

My company has recently transitioned away from the T series to a different brand, but I'm holding on to my T480 until it dies or I quit.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#66

Post by sbuk »

leeoniya wrote: post #14
hericium wrote: post #4

IBM's ThinkPads lasted to this day without having issues. My Lenovo ThinkPad T14s AMD has multiple dead pixels, enter and backspace keys not working at all and completely fucked up USB bridge, resetting devices all the time which results in unsolicited clicks and drag'n'drop or screen selection being unavailable both using mouse and touchpad. "Business laptop" my ass. It's a disgrace to the ThinkPad brand what Lenovo…

P14s Gen2 (Ryzen 7 PRO 5850U, 4k matte/calibrated display), no issues at all. did have to swap the mediatek Wifi card for an Intel AX210, (could have been early driver issues in linux kernel tho, but maybe not...cloning a big git repo perma-disconnected wifi in linux and bluescreened Win10) i think the T14 is equivalent, but either they didn't offer the 4k display or AMD with that model when i was ordering. their mod…

I have the same laptop. Keyboard squeaks, USB-C port doesn't hold the adapter in place - falls out all the time. Battery life is appalling for a 2022 model laptop. It runs hot all the time, like burn my legs hot - I cannot work with it on my lap. That's probably related to the OS (Windows 11 'Pro'). Feels cheap and plasticky for the amount it cost. Thank goodness it's supplied by work and I didn't buy it. Not my first experience with Lenovo, but not great.

Edit: The trackpad is quite literally the worst I've every used - at times it's completely unresponsive.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#67

Post by neilv »

zen_1 wrote: post #47
mkoryak wrote: post #43

Anyone here know if it's possible to fix a t43p cooling fan that sounds like a bumblebee? I doubt I can find a replacement

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=t43p+fan Looks like there are still some replacements kicking around. I've never seen a computer fan be repaired, and it seems the bearings all tend to fail eventually.

I've had good luck with the ThinkPad fans from eBay.

A few tips to anyone doing the replacement:

* Find the PDF of the ThinkPad Hardware Maintenance Manual (HMM) for your model. This will give valuable step-by-step instructions for disassembling the parts that you need to, and not the parts you don't.

* Just buy the fan part, not the whole heatsink+fan assembly, even if the HMM tells you that the FRU is the assembly.

* Keep track of the screws as you take them out. I like to use a sheet of paper with loops of tape, and label as I remove (see photo on "https://www.neilvandyke.org/coreboot/").

* Have some thermal compound handy, as well as a way to clean the old compound. Since either you'll end up separating the heatsink from the CPU (and possibly other chipset packages), or you might as well replace compound while you have it open.

* You might need new tape to attach the fan part to the grill.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#68

Post by blowski »

ok123456 wrote: post #63
blowski wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider the likelihood of needing to repair or extend it within a 6 year lifetime, and I believe the Macbook has by far the best reputation in that regard.

Bing: Macbook Butterfly Keyboard Failure. In reality, modern Macbooks have a horrible reputation for repairability and engage in dark patterns to stop you from getting your device repaired even when it is an option.

Counter-point. The company I work for has about 50/50 Macbooks vs Lenovo. We have about 1000 staff, and I've seen similar rates in a company with 5000 staff.

Macbooks

* 2% fail in first 12 months

* 20% need replacing in 3 years

Lenovo:

* 20% fail in first 12 months. (Surprisingly high number fail out of the box)

* 80% need replacing within 3 years

I don't want a laptop that's easy to repair as much as a laptop that doesn't need repairing.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#69

Post by neilv »

jeffbee wrote: post #46
ct0 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an x220 in my line up of older machines. My newest is an X1 Carbon gen6 aka x1c6. I was surprised how quickly I was able to open the bottom of it up install a new wifi6 card. About 5 screws and the back is off and another screw holding in the wifi card. I dont think the x220 is that fast.

To replace the WLAN card in an X220, you must remove all the screws on the bottom of the case, the keyboard, and the palm rest. It's not trivial but anyone can do it. Unfortunately it would be largely pointless since the X220 has an allowlist for PCIe cards, and I'm sure it does not include any modern wifi devices.

I upgraded the WiFi cards in my X200 units by installing Coreboot, which has no PCIe allowlist. https://www.neilvandyke.org/coreboot/ I don't know the state of Coreboot support for X220, and the entire process can be a headache, but it might be an option.

I understand some people instead use modified stock Lenovo BIOS to defeat the PCIe allowlist.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#70

Post by calvinmorrison »

ct0 wrote: post #23
JamesAdir wrote: post #3

My Thinkpad X220 still going strong, and I miss a computer I can open up, replace or upgrade what's needed in an easy way. The form factor is good enough and I don't need or want this inch thin laptops just because one company decided it's suits them and fashionable. Unfortunately Lenovo doesn't really keep the brand and in the gazillion models they have on stock, there isn't one that can replace my X220 in convenien…

I have an x220 in my line up of older machines. My newest is an X1 Carbon gen6 aka x1c6. I was surprised how quickly I was able to open the bottom of it up install a new wifi6 card. About 5 screws and the back is off and another screw holding in the wifi card. I dont think the x220 is that fast.

I don't know if it's just the x220 but every time I open it I seem to have at least one left over screw on my desk.
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