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Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

ripoffornot.org

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Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#161
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of stuff, especially Twitter-spamming, really rubs me the wrong way. Some people call it hustle, but I just think it's dirty. I'm much less likely to sign up for FreshDesk in the future if it comes across my desk now.

I agree. I interned for a company that was kind of competing with [fairly big startup that most of you have heard of]. At the time, Company was way smaller than it is now, but was still bigger than us. (We had very few customers; no one had heard of us whereas I'd already seen mentions of Company on HN several times; they had fulltime employees other than the founders and we did not.) Despite this, any time anyone me…

> [...] they'd probably be better off building their product and figuring out how to best meet the needs of their current customers

That's nonsense -- a variation on the "Field of Dreams" fallacy of "build it and they will come". Customer acquisition, which PR and marketing feed into, is absolutely essential.

In fact, your advice is the opposite of what most programmer-founded startups should do. You don't win by having a better product that nobody's heard of. And I think anyone that's been hanging around startup-y folks for a while can tell you about a handful of friends who misunderstood that point to their own peril.

All that this post really did for me was make me hear FreshBook's name again. In fact, the ZenDesk naming spat is more likely to make me actually remember the name. And that's probably enough that if my company is looking for a SaaS support tool in the future, that we'll give them a look as well. Which is assume is exactly what they were hoping for.

For all the talk of what they're doing to their pristine brand here and blah, blah, I don't think anyone serious is going to hold this move against them in a purchasing decision. Bringing in new infrastructure software is not done on a whim.

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#163
post #74

HackerNews readers, watch and learn. I'm about deconstruct what is going on. Anybody who brushes off FreshDesk because of its Indian roots is doing FreshDesk a favour. This is a sharp mind at work and it is lethal. FreshDesk is executing the standard modus operandi of upstart against an incumbent. Jobs is a master at it (I'm Apple I'm Microsoft), Calacanis too (remember the SEO controversy, and then the Angel controv…

@teyc - I will take what you have said as a huge compliment. I wish I was as smart as you say I am. When this happened, we considered our options -

1. We ignore the comments. But that will seem that anyone can say anything and get away with it. It is wrong.

2. We could engage in a war of words on Twitter. It seemed stupid to go that route.

3.Write the entire story and present how we felt about the whole thing. - That is what we did.

We did not consider SEO or link juice to setup a separate site. Our blog uses Posterous and to my knowledge Posterous does not support embeddable Twitter widgets. So we went the separate domain route. I was actually of the opinion that a post on our blog is better SEO. I posted this on social networks to publicize our response. I posted it on HN for a meaningful discussion which I think happened and I learnt some good things and some mistakes.

I definitely don't want the Australian - Indian racism debate anymore than you do. I think it is disgusting. We were attacked for no reason and we wanted to respond. It's Monday morning here in India and we are back to work on improving our Product.

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#164
post #74

HackerNews readers, watch and learn. I'm about deconstruct what is going on. Anybody who brushes off FreshDesk because of its Indian roots is doing FreshDesk a favour. This is a sharp mind at work and it is lethal. FreshDesk is executing the standard modus operandi of upstart against an incumbent. Jobs is a master at it (I'm Apple I'm Microsoft), Calacanis too (remember the SEO controversy, and then the Angel controv…

Can you (or another SEO) comment on why the mini-site is better than just a blog post on their site? Don't they want the PageRank juice for their main site and not the mini-site? Or is the plan to redirect the mini-site at a later date?

A few reasons:

1. You can host a separate site on its own IP (and, even better, an IP in a different C subnet than their main site) and point links from that domain to the home domain. Thus link juice gets passed to home domain in a roundabout manner.

As far as the domain becoming irrelevant in two weeks time: it doesn't matter. If it gets some coverage and links from authoritative sources (ala Hacker News, which doesn't nofollow), the domain will gain authority and that authority gets passed on to the other domains it links out to.

2. Buzz. As larrys pointed out, ripoffornot.com is a great, controversial domain name. That alone could inspire a bit more buzz, which -- generally -- means more authority getting passed to the site via links (see point 1) or via social sharing.

3. Highly targeted. When someone searches for zendesk vs. freshdesk, this domain has an extremely high chance of ranking. It uses both terms extensively and includes a bit table comparing the two services. Good for users, great for bots. more over it's attention grabbing and reads well.

4. Reputation Management. Having an influential person talking smack about your brand is obviously not a good thing. What happens if that negative review starts ranking for you name or, even worse, the term "[Brand] Ripoff" starts showing up in google instant results.

No good.

Freshdesk is owning this bit of bad press. When someone searches for "freshdesk ripoff" or something similar there's a good chance this domain will show up because it's targeted (see point 3) more than a blog post could be.

All of those factors mean that this domain is telling one helluva compelling story. People like stories and are happy to spread them around.

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#165

If the Hacker News people need a guide to notice how FreshDesk guys are motivated to draw the attention of people by making bullshit, I'm going to stop reading HN. Shame on you the readers voted this article up. This is completely bullshit. If you take a look at the website of Freshdesk, you'll see that they stole the design of Zendesk. They probably did it to draw the attention of Zendesk and gather some angry tweet…

> If you take a look at the website of Freshdesk, you'll see that they stole the design of Zendesk. Are there that many different possible designs for a helpdesk system?

Did you checked out the designs of two website? Freshdesk even copy the buttons of Zendesk's homepage. What the fuck are you talking about?

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#166
post #57
post #50

As much as I'd like to side with the guy getting picked on (Freshdesk), Zendesk is completely right. Ignoring the interface and naming similarities, you can't complain about ZenDesk on Twitter without multiple Freshdesk spammers bombarding you. Sure there's nothing illegal about it, but they're obnoxious with the "a customer of a rival is complaining, I MUST CONVERT THEM!" concept. (I called them a rip-off of Zendesk…

Something about the whole freshdesk attitude really rubs me the wrong way. Not saying zendesk is in the right either. I just feel like I read the whole ripoffornot page and cringe. Definitely doesn't seem like the type of company I would want to give my time or money. A couple people complained about their product on twitter and they built a whole page responding to it? In it, they respond to the criticism by making…

"A couple people complained about their product on twitter and they built a whole page responding to it?"

The CEO of Zendesk made the comment "@benkepes you know what they say. Imitation is the sincerest from of WAIT-WHAT-A-FREAKING-RIP-OFF! ;)"

Even if the allegation is correct, that is no way for a CEO to represent his company. Perhaps he should have contacted Freshdesk (privately) and told them if he thought there were trademark or patent issues, only bringing anything public if they refused to cooperate. If not, he probably should not have replied to the original comment at all.

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#167
post #74

HackerNews readers, watch and learn. I'm about deconstruct what is going on. Anybody who brushes off FreshDesk because of its Indian roots is doing FreshDesk a favour. This is a sharp mind at work and it is lethal. FreshDesk is executing the standard modus operandi of upstart against an incumbent. Jobs is a master at it (I'm Apple I'm Microsoft), Calacanis too (remember the SEO controversy, and then the Angel controv…

@teyc - I will take what you have said as a huge compliment. I wish I was as smart as you say I am. When this happened, we considered our options - 1. We ignore the comments. But that will seem that anyone can say anything and get away with it. It is wrong. 2. We could engage in a war of words on Twitter. It seemed stupid to go that route. 3.Write the entire story and present how we felt about the whole thing. - That…

Kudos for turning a defensive move into PR gold.

Absolutely right about Australian-Indian racism debate. A lot of Indians doing very well here, and the last time something flared up, the news attracted a lot of unwanted attention to the nationals who have settled down here.

I'm sorry to have distracted people from a meaningful discussion. You have executed well, and this has to be discussed.

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#168
Very well executed response. If they can execute that well on this I can imagine that they are even better on product development and customer service.

I don't understand the comments against their response. I find shameful that a paid blogger tweet against a competitor with a subjective attack without disclosing the conflict of interest and that the guy paying the blogger chimes in insulting the competitor.

And Ghandi's quote at the end fit so well, I am still smiling :)

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#169
As CEO of another Indian startup, I am furious that anybody would drag nationality into this. There are no boundaries on Internet, and certainly Girish rightly says that commenting on nationality simply reflects poorly on his own maturity level.

Aren't most of the products rip-off in some sense? Take Apple, Google, Yahoo or any other company out there. Rarely, if ever, a company comes up with something totally new and innovative that it doesn't resemble anything else in the market. A new category, that is. ZenDesk didn't invent helpdesk system. Instead, like all other companies, they are evolving and perfecting helpdesk systems. FreshDesk is also an attempt at this, (and so is our product Visual Website Optimizer for A/B testing tools).

I wish companies compete in a professional and respectful way, this war of words simply disgusts me.

Re: Zendesk CEO calls Freshdesk a freaking rip off - Freshdesk responds

#170
http://fakeoffice.org/ - This is how Zoho took advantage of the words of Ron Markezich to get some good publicity and recall against MS Office.

No wonder Girish who is an ex-Zoho did the same with this tweet.

Seems to be a nice way to market your product as a replacement to the current market leader.

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