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German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

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Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#61

In case anyone things this has anything to do with the current Russia situation, it most likely has not. Stuff like that happens every few years on larger scale and sometimes multiple times a year on smaller scale (e.g. part of Berlin local trains not going because of it). A lot of this sabotage comes from people trying to steal cables, but then also sometimes giving up in the process. Then there a climate crazed peo…

Cables in both Berlin and Dortmund were severed around the same time. This smells of a larger, coordinated oepration.

Not really. It's not hard to pull off you just need around 4 people, maybe 2 would work, too.

Getting illegal short term access to the cables around there long runs isn't hard. Like at all.

Finding which cable need to be cut is a bit harder but not too hard either. (It's not a state secret or anything, there are quite a bunch of people which know stuff like that. Worse just by following news in recent years about what interruptions cable theft caused is probably enough to find out where you need to cut cables.) Sure it involves a bit of planing and research etc. But nothing which is beyond what a small handful of misguided but not very stupid people can archive. And in my experience people in the group I mentioned are not stupid at all, misguided sure, but not stupid.

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#62
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not clear if it is copper (communication, not power) cables or fibre.

Other articles (e.g. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bahn-sabotage-101.html ) do mention fibre cables.

Yep, so the copper thieves (this time) are innocent.

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#63
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but I would assume the same attack is not going to be successfully against the same target a second time. So they are essentially providing free pentesting. And creating a climate that allows governments to introduce much stronger security measures. Without creating much actual damage. Also I wonder if it was a physical oder purely software attack? If it was a physical attack on a critical system, it could have…

> Yeah but I would assume the same attack is not going to be successfully against the same target a second time. That's a bold assumption

And that's why the CIA started this merry band of shadowy infrastructure hackers :)

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#64
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That these things are being done to maintain the fear, to increase the military budgets Somehow I think the shooting war in Europe right now is doing that just fine without the need for tinfoil. If there's anything that does not need to be further incentivized among European populations and governments right now, it's NATO coordination.

From your side of the fence, I'd imagine that's true. On the other hand, as I understand it, the other side some years ago expressed concerns about encouragement on their borders*. In fact, I've heard it said there was an agreement that wouldn't happen...then it did. But that depth is lost? How convenient. Once you accept (?) the lies about the WMDs then it becomes clear that there are actors that have no bounds. Bel…

Meh. All I'm saying is that when real bullets are flying, you'll find you have a much (much) harder time selling people on conspiracy theories. Trying to convince people that it's really western illuminati at fault works poorly when it was the other side that rolled the tanks.

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#65

In case anyone things this has anything to do with the current Russia situation, it most likely has not. Stuff like that happens every few years on larger scale and sometimes multiple times a year on smaller scale (e.g. part of Berlin local trains not going because of it). A lot of this sabotage comes from people trying to steal cables, but then also sometimes giving up in the process. Then there a climate crazed peo…

I doubt the involvement of any well-known climate activist groups: They tend to claim responsibility for their actions, as the point is to generate publicity and political pressure.

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#67
post #38

Coincidentally there are very big demonstrations scheduled for today in Berlin. Trains not running to Berlin is definitely reducing the amount of participants joining these events. Just saying.

For what cause?

For the (far) right-wing party AFD https://berlinspectator.com/2022/10/08/berlin-extremist-far-...

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#68
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in north-east Poland we're quite used to it. The most frequent are GPS spoofing and lte jamming. Its not like they even try to hide their location or anything. If I was to put my tinfoil hat on I would say those current attacks concentrate on Germany because due to long standing influence of Russians on German politics German's political class is a de-facto ally of Russia (against the will of its own population)…

I don't buy that theory. First of all: outside of the party "Die Linke" and the left wing of the SPD, there's little ideological friendship to Russia in German politics, it's either regular corruption (Gerhard Schröder) or industrial politics ("you give us cheap energy, we keep our eyes closed and don't mention the smell"). If anything, actions like these will make Germans more willing to spend extra money on defense…

Right wing AfD also seems to sympathize with Russia. Unclear how much because they like Putin's "traditionalist" policies and how much because they are Russian controlled shit stirrers.

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#69

What's peculiar is that the railway itself used the word "sabotage". Interruptions happen all the time and the description is usually just a specific thing that happened - damage to the grid, snow, suicide... In comparison, sabotage has very strong implications, as if they want people to assume something.

Nah, train delay "explanations" are typically quite vague. Consider the famous "Verzögerung wegen Verzögerung im Betriebsablauf" (delay due to delays in operations). Also, they never mention suicides, in the same way that suicides are not reported on by media in general. I believe it gets coded as "emergency medical services" (well, "Notarzteinsatz"), which can of course have non-suicide causes as well.

Re: German rail operator says train disruption caused by sabotage

#70

Maybe I am tinfoiling too hard... In February this year there was an attack against Vodafone Portugal that brought down their whole mobile networks, 4G, 5G, and fiber, taking them several days to bring everything back up [0]. It also very clearly was a state actor, no threats, no ransom, sophisticated. Taking down pipelines, taking down comms, taking down transport infrastructure. All within a few months. Always on N…

Its NATO
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