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Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

blog.jpl-consulting.com

61–70 of 143 posts

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#61
post #52

Look around you and you will find that most American companies hire lots of Indians as programmers. Do you think that the guys who ended up coming to America suddenly transmogrified in to competent programmers during their flight across the ocean? Do you think that those Indian engineers who decided to stay back and work in India are any less competent than the ones who took the flight? Having worked in both India an…

Population numbers play apart in this question, but any thoughts on the proportion of strong programmers that either come to the states or work for a large company in india versus those hired by the body shops?

My suspicion is, if they can, an individual will opt to go where he/she can earn more/get better experience than put up with the tasks typically handed over to the job shops (WiPro, etc)...Furthermore, given these firms are the ones that most US employers deal with, the view for outsourced labor will be clouded by this "narrow" exposure...

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#63
post #52

Look around you and you will find that most American companies hire lots of Indians as programmers. Do you think that the guys who ended up coming to America suddenly transmogrified in to competent programmers during their flight across the ocean? Do you think that those Indian engineers who decided to stay back and work in India are any less competent than the ones who took the flight? Having worked in both India an…

[deleted]

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#64
Although it is unfair to generalize this to all Indian software companies, unfortunately, it is mostly true. In my opinion the reason is mostly one of these three:

1) Some Indian companies, look to cash in the price arbitrage, and have a short term view (3 - 5 years). So they bid for projects, where they have very little expertise and experience. (In India, there is a huge market for sub-sub-contracting. Companies, win projects and then look for people with expertise to actually execute them. (Personally I have been asked to consult so many times)).

2) Education in general is in shambles and especially C.S. education. Also education is (unfortunately) a business. For example the latest fad is to start Android development classes. So many are coming up. (but most of them don't have good tutors. (Again, personally I am asked to come in as "Industry Expert"). Students join these classes and 3 / 6 months later they consider themselves qualified. (when in reality they know so little).

3) Most students (regardless of aptitude to software development) take C.S. is college because of better job prospects. Obviously they cannot be good engineers. There is such a shortage of engineers, that invariably such people do get hired (which feeds the cycle) and lowers quality of output.

About Me: I am an Indian software developer and founder of a software development shop.

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#65

Decent Indian Outsourcing Companies charge 50$/hrs. Authors friend was willing to pay 12$/hr and he got what he payed for. Outsourcing or not, if you want cheap, you will get cheap.

The whole point of outsourcing is to get something done at lower cost. If $50/hr isn't significantly lower than what it would cost here (including factoring in the intangible costs such as communication time, etc) then outsourcing would no longer be compelling.

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#66
Tell you what, I want to see if this is true. So here is a unique offer.

If anyone here would like me to build a web application for them from scratch, I will quote you a price and a time. The price will be my usual freelance price ($100 / hour) but the turnaround time AND the quality will probably delight you.

Here are my credentials briefly:

I have experience with C, C++, PHP, Mysql, Javascript, CSS3, HTML5, Node.js ...

I have built complex integrations using the facebook platform since 2007 and I have built apps and pages for various brands etc.

I authored a framework that lets me develop social sites and apps in a fraction of the time it would take from scratch. An earlier version was open-sourced at http://phponpie.com

I can administer Linux and set up development environments, version control, project management, and can act as a team lead

I have had to deal with issues involving scaling architecture (e.g. sharding), security (e.g. CSRF prevention) and browser incompatibilities. In fact my framework takes care of most of them out of the box, so I don't have to reinvent the wheel anymore.

I've been managing a team of developers for the past two years (http://qbix.com/about), so I could help you with leading a team

I've created some apps that have been downloaded about half a million times and have 30k daily active users, so I could probably consult you on increasing word of mouth and engagement.

I'm a CEO of a start-up, which has exclusively hired overseas developers. They are Russian-speaking, however, not Indian. It works for me since I am Russian speaking.

But I do consulting on the side.

The experiment is ... I am curious who reading this would actually contact me and want to hire me. I will make myself available for the next month to do my best on any project I decide to take on.

My guess, however, is that hiring is difficult and connections are usually made through other channels (such as recruiters). This is why many people hire Indian developers online. Because online, it is a much more attractive option.

You can contact me by going here: http://qbix.com/about and clicking the right button.

I will report on whether I got any real offers :)

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#67
post #44

I am from India and let me say you don't have to feel threatened by bad programmers in India. The problem with posts like these is they make massive generalizations which are not true. Not every body here is a genius and not everybody here is an idiot. I have worked in extremely challenging projects which were billed for dirt cheap prices. Considering the cost at which finished the projects it was almost like we were…

Spot on. My 10 years’ experience in outsourcing industry is similar[0]. I think of this as another instance of bias against Indian outsourcing. I have seen many instances during my career which seems to indicate that pricing do not correlate with performance. [0] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3182996

Your view could also be interpreted as being biased against US based developers (what you refer to as 'Native') and the racism you perceive them to be exhibiting.

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#69
post #52

Look around you and you will find that most American companies hire lots of Indians as programmers. Do you think that the guys who ended up coming to America suddenly transmogrified in to competent programmers during their flight across the ocean? Do you think that those Indian engineers who decided to stay back and work in India are any less competent than the ones who took the flight? Having worked in both India an…

The suck in outsourcing doesn't come from the location you outsource to. It comes from hiring bottom of the barrel programmers embedded within a large bureaucracy.

Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India

#70
post #63
post #52

Look around you and you will find that most American companies hire lots of Indians as programmers. Do you think that the guys who ended up coming to America suddenly transmogrified in to competent programmers during their flight across the ocean? Do you think that those Indian engineers who decided to stay back and work in India are any less competent than the ones who took the flight? Having worked in both India an…

[deleted]

I think his point was that Chinese startups have the advantage of serving a large internal market of Mandarin speakers, while Indian startups need to compete in the English speaking world.

On that note I have a question for smg. I have not been able to figure out why there are so few Indian tech startups serving the Indian market. I can only think of naukri and makemytrip. Do you know why? I read somewhere that there are 120M Internet users in India now, up from 80M two years ago. Do you think it now makes sense for Indian web startups?

I'm not familiar with mobile startups in India though, so maybe there are a lot of those.

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