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Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

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Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#291

Post by bee_rider »

rjcjvyd77 wrote: post #267
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

> At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. There was never any risk. Someone wrote an article in the times suggesting "perhaps" and people freaked out. There has never been a single instance or study to support this claim. The entire idea airplane mode is a farce.

Actually, a single phone can easily cause a plane to crash.

Source: This is a lie but sitting behind someone on a plane who gets a call is super annoying.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#292

Post by matwood »

Moto7451 wrote: post #155
chrisseaton wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at least not while airlines are still constantly losing luggage Does that actually happen to people still? I thought it was just a 90s meme. I get a push notification every time they move my bag anywhere. 'Accepted into the system', 'loaded onto the plane', 'unloaded off the plane', 'popped out at the carousel'. Seems pretty bullet proof these days.

It still happens. In a lot of cases they find it and go through some efforts to deliver the luggage to where you’re staying.

> through some efforts to deliver the luggage

I was in Greece once dealing with lost luggage. The airline threw it on a ferry and told me to run on and look/grab my bag when it got to the island I was on. I guess that’s some effort lol

And, this time I had AirTags in my bags which ended up being super useful for tracking.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#293

Post by Zigurd »

leifg wrote: post #276

Knowing German I read through the sources. This article is pretty misleading. The [primary source]( https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-... ) is a slightly clickbait article asking the questions: "Are AirTags allowed in checked luggage?". They reached out to Lufthanse asking them. They responded: "Luggage trackers are electronic devices so they have to be turned off when the luggage is checked…

Best comment in this thread. This should really be about the article being a well executed recipe for clickbait.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#294

Post by kergonath »

datadata wrote: post #146

Not that they need any sympathy, but it seems unjust towards apple to be targeting a specific product from a specific company, rather than say a blanket ban (no device that will transmit Bluetooth). I wonder if this will boost the market for airtag competitors.

> I wonder if this will boost the market for airtag competitors.

Probably as much as Samsung’s competitors were boosted after a bunch of airlines made noise about exploding smartphones. That is, not at all.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#295

Post by throwbigdata »

capableweb wrote: post #257
madrox wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once forgot to put my cell phone in airplane mode during a flight from London to SFO (and didn't use my phone during the flight). I was rather alarmed to see a flood of text messages from my carrier welcoming me to Iceland, Canada, and the US upon my landing.

That sounds... Improbable. When you were passing over Iceland you must have been far too far above the antennas to receive any sort of signal, unless it landed there on the way across the ocean?

A long time ago when we found out that iPhones were keeping track of where you went, I learned that my phone had associated with some Russian cell towers when I flew over Russia flying from Newark to India, or somewhere like that. It’s highly probable.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#296

Post by EvanAnderson »

Retric wrote: post #288
capableweb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds... Improbable. When you were passing over Iceland you must have been far too far above the antennas to receive any sort of signal, unless it landed there on the way across the ocean?

Being 6 miles up and 8 miles horizontally is only 10 miles from a cellphone tower. As rural cells can easily be more than 20 miles this seems reasonable.

I would think the antennas on cell towers are polarized to limit radiated power up.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#297

Post by rory »

ktta wrote: post #278
rory wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before landing on the last flight I was on, the flight attendants requested that everyone turn off their phones (even if in airplane mode) due to the weather conditions while landing. Does anyone know what purpose that could possibly serve? This was in France if that's a relevant clue.

The France clue actually contradicts my guess, because I'm guessing that was an Airbus? Anyways, he's one theory: Boeing has an issue where its radio altimeters are affected by C-band 5G transmissions. I believe maybe the pilots were relying more on the precision of the altimeter because their vision was impaired due to the bad weather? The whole 'turn off phones' instruction could be because people would follow the…

I'm pretty ignorant of airplane models, Air France flight but it was a large plane so may have been a Boeing 777.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#298

Post by rzimmerman »

nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

Switching your phone transmitter off is technically required by FCC regulations: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B...

Realistically there isn't an issue with leaving a cell phone on and out of airplane mode going purely based on how many people forget or ignore the directions everyday and how infrequently there are problems. But I'll make two points:

The idea that a cell phone transmitter can interfere with an airplane is by no means outrageous. Sure, a modern iPhone/Pixel/whatever has to meet certain emissions and interference standards. And modern airliners are designed with some interference rejection in mind. And ancient airliners from the 70s don't rely on a lot of electronic systems at all. As for airplanes designed in the 90s, well it's not silly to ask whether 200 people with 1W transmitters would interfere with the electronic systems. A properly functioning compliant phone shouldn't, but there's still some risk. Incidents do happen, though they are generally minor. I was on an airplane that had to abort a landing and go-around because they couldn't hear the tower over cellphone interference (voice comms are analog). Obviously no one died, but we were still delayed a bit.

It probably makes sense to relax the rules, but it is incredibly frustrating to see the attitude of "if they don't force me to turn it off it must be OK". The FCC requires you to turn off transmitters to avoid interference. The airline asks you to do so for the same reason. Experts in the field (myself included) are telling you there's a small risk and you should hit the airplane mode button. There's zero benefit to keeping your cellular service active in flight at all. But everyone's seen some article on Facebook (or in this case inverse.com) that says maybe there's a big conspiracy and everyone's lying to them. So they take a risk (albeit an extremely small one) with the lives of 200 other people. For no gain at all.

So do whatever you want, there's nothing I can do about human nature, but believe me when I tell you there's no government conspiracy to make you press the little airplane button funded by the cell phone companies. Yeah, the risk is probably negligible - it's just really hard to prove it and easier to make a small ask of passengers.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#299

Post by rippercushions »

rjcjvyd77 wrote: post #267
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

> At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. There was never any risk. Someone wrote an article in the times suggesting "perhaps" and people freaked out. There has never been a single instance or study to support this claim. The entire idea airplane mode is a farce.

There definitely was theoretical risk with 2G-era mobile phones, which blasted considerable amounts of radiation.

I was in university once doing a signal interference lab: we had set up an circuit and we're trying to induce current in it from another circuit. Suddenly the oscilloscope on the receiving end showed a couple of wild spikes, and I received a text message on my trusty Nokia 1611: apparently 900 MHz was in the sweet spot.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#300

Post by kshacker »

capableweb wrote: post #257
madrox wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once forgot to put my cell phone in airplane mode during a flight from London to SFO (and didn't use my phone during the flight). I was rather alarmed to see a flood of text messages from my carrier welcoming me to Iceland, Canada, and the US upon my landing.

That sounds... Improbable. When you were passing over Iceland you must have been far too far above the antennas to receive any sort of signal, unless it landed there on the way across the ocean?

I have received messages over Russia (traveling from US to India, 2-3 years back). And I received from one more country that I do not recall. It happens.
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