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Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

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Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#261

Post by varajelle »

RC_ITR wrote: post #249
aydyn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And before you say "I don't need trust, validators have economic incentive to keep doing it, and if they don't someone else will", I have something to tell you about why people choose to work at banks (it's the salary). This statement supports exactly the opposite of the point you're trying to make. Think about it: * Bankers have economic incentive to work at a bank (the salary) * Validators have economic incentive…

Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless.

You don't need to trust the validator because the protocol and cryptography makes sure they can't do anything against you. And the incentive they have to mine aligns with what you want (having the chain validated)

You need to trust bankers because nothing prevent them to just take your money. They're not working for you, they are working for the bank.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#262

Post by Nursie »

unboxingelf wrote: post #259
redox99 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. If you give aw…

What is “crypto”? If you hold the keys to some PoS token it’s effectively the same as holding physical fiat dollars. There is crypto and there is Bitcoin, and they are not the same thing.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. It was the first one and it spawned many offspring. Some are identical, some are chain forks, some code forks. Some change, add or remove features. It created the category “cryptocurrency” and shares all of its features with other cryptocurrencies.

This “buh buh buh Bitcoin isn’t a crypto!” meme that’s popped up since the last major crash is childish.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#263

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

a2tech wrote: post #2

gasp I'm shocked, absolutely SHOCKED, that people involved in crypto would be scam artists.

I'm not sure that quite follows. Yes, cryptocurrencies are currently a wild west, and there are a lot of scams, but I don't think it's fair to paint the whole space with the brush of a single particularly-blatant scam. It's like... when the whole Theranos thing came crashing down, it wouldn't be fair to say "well of course, most claimed medical advances are scams"; Theranos was a scam, and had some fairly major signs of being a scam, but that doesn't mean that most medical advances are scams. Likewise, Celsius was a scam, and AIUI looked like a scam pretty early on, just like a lot of other things in cryptocurrency are scams, but that doesn't mean "people involved in crypto" == "scam artists".

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#264

Post by charcircuit »

tlb wrote: post #103
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Gold, for example, is not backed by people with guns. However a financial and legal system can be built on top of it, in fact it was build on top of it until 50 years ago.

Sure it is. If someone steals your gold, you can call the people with guns to arrest them and get it back to you (often). It doesn't have to work 100% of the time to be an effective deterrent.

The same thing applies to cryptocurrency. You can call up people with guns to do that too.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#265

Post by miked85 »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

There is no anonymity aspect, except (maybe?) with some coins.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#266

Post by cycomanic »

redox99 wrote: post #143
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. If you give aw…

> This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys).

> We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless.

It's funny how you write "with fiat it unless you hold cash, you can't do that". So what you mean is really with fiat you can do it just as well? The reason why people don't want to hold large amount of cash is convenience, the possibility of it getting stolen, lost... Interestingly many of the same reasons why people don't want to hold crypto themselves either.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#267

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

Here is an article about Federal reserve officials selling all their stocks dated September 10th 2021 to avoid "conflict of interest". I would ask you to open the S&P 500 and check the 10th of September 2021. https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/fed-officials-sell-...

It's not just about crypto, it's about who is allowed to use inside information.

Celsius was a scam, if something seems too good to be true then it is. The same applies to LUNA and it's Anchor protocol which was giving 20% APY on the UST stablecoin. We saw what happened there.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#268

Post by midwesternskyz »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

> That's why the whole [fiat] system works -- because of the threat of violence.

> Crypto doesn't have that ... for now.

Subtle!

The word violence has many euphemisms, but you are using the word violence here as a euphemism for the power of the state to enforce its laws. You can argue about the laws themselves (as we all do) but to not enforce the law is anarchy.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#269

Post by adrianN »

varajelle wrote: post #261
RC_ITR wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless.

You don't need to trust the validator because the protocol and cryptography makes sure they can't do anything against you. And the incentive they have to mine aligns with what you want (having the chain validated) You need to trust bankers because nothing prevent them to just take your money. They're not working for you, they are working for the bank.

Nothing prevents them from taking your money, except the legal system of the country the bank resides in.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#270

Post by cycomanic »

redox99 wrote: post #179
cwkoss wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a no true scotsman fallacy. It is crypto. It is the shallow, lazy, dangerous way of using it it, but it is still cryptocurrency.

People have been saying "not your keys, not your coins" for over a decade. This isn't anything new.

It's funny you can say that about pretty much anything. If it's not cash on yourself it's not your money, or all sort of other assets where ownership is essentially backed by the government. The issue with all these crypto schemes is, people want to get rid of government oversight when it's inconvenient for them (e.g. have to pay taxes) but otherwise still want the government to guarantee ownership of actual physical assets, because it would be pretty inconvenient to loose the mansion you bought with all the crypto gains.
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