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Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

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Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#141

Post by bigbillheck »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #123
tlb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is. If someone steals your gold, you can call the people with guns to arrest them and get it back to you (often). It doesn't have to work 100% of the time to be an effective deterrent.

It's the same with coins. However fiat money must be protected by people with guns against forgery. With one exception: people in power are allowed to counterfeit it, thus robbing the common people, under protection of people with guns. Gold and Bitcoin are immune to both types of forgery.

Counterfeit gold is a long-standing art, even to the present day https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/metals/buyer-and-seller-be...

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#142

Post by tcgv »

karamanolev wrote: post #134
tossl568 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't steal my Bitcoin if I don't deposit them with a custodian. This is like blaming gold itself if the owners of a gold bank run off with the gold.

> You can't steal my Bitcoin if I don't deposit them with a custodian. Many people have lost their BTC and other coins to hacks, phishes, hardware failures, software failures and so on. So in the sense of the people from the general public, yes, I can steal your Bitcoin. > This is like blaming gold itself if the owners of a gold bank run off with the gold. You can keep it under the mattress and expose yourself to one…

> yes, I can steal your Bitcoin

Let's fix that phrase:

- yes, I can steal your Bitcoin keys

And then go further and transfer the bitcoins

Other than that, no, you CANNOT steal "my" bitcoins

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#143

Post by redox99 »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys).

We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless.

If you give away your crypto to some centralized entity and "trust them" that they'll keep your stuff and not steal it, then you don't get the point of crypto and you're using it wrong.

Yes, I know holding your own keys is hard. There are a lot of things that can be done to improve the UX. And even then, I don't think crypto needs to be easy enough for your grandma to use it, because I don't think crypto needs to replace TradFi for every transaction.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#145

Post by eropple »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #102
jedberg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. The other important aspect of a working financial system is the ability for a 3rd party (courts/law enforcement) to undo transactions. Crypto makes that impossible without the cooperation of the offender.

There are many ways to implement undo-ing transactions on the blockchain. One is with multi-sig wallets. There are also others: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/09/28/stanford-proposal-f...

You keep talking about "multi-sig wallets" in multiple posts. Are you going to have courts in every relevant jurisdiction have a handle on that wallet? That seems unlikely to go over well with the sorts of people who take these seriously.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#146

Post by itake »

redox99 wrote: post #143
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. If you give aw…

> The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys).

I've also heard stories where people were locked out of exchanges during crashes, preventing liquidation, because exchanges stopped or delayed deposits during high volume trading.

Its super cool that you can keep your own crypto, but if you can't trade that crypto, whats the point?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#147

Post by CharlesW »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #120
bogomipz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -- because of the threat of violence." How many people were prosecuted for the 2008 financial crisis though? Neither did the "…

Exactly. The people who benefit the most from the current system are the already rich, who can afford to the legal fees and come up with creative defenses. Crypto also benefits the rich (like everything), but not as disproportionately as the current legal system. This debate reminds me of the nature vs nurture debate in biology. It's a mirage. In reality, it's nature via nurture. Similarly, there is no inherent divid…

> Crypto also benefits the rich (like everything), but not as disproportionately as the current legal system.

Are you sure? The WSJ says that 0.01% of all holders control 27% of Bitcoin, vs. the top 1% of households who control about a third of all U.S. wealth.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoins-one-percent-controls-l...

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#148

Post by Bloedcoin »

redox99 wrote: post #143
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. If you give aw…

Funny how other crypto bros would say the opposite.

But hey now you got my interest: if it's not for normal people for whom is crypto then in your opinion?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#149

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

omgomgomgomg wrote: post #122

This was an incredibly bold operation from the begining. They planned to exit one way or another, using the incorporated in the US to gain trust and the plan was not to just disappear, but file for bankruptcy as in "it happens". It is remarkable how they used the depositors or investors money to pay for their lawyers and yet the government considers this a chapter 11 instead of 7, as if there is any way to conduct bu…

> Every time something like this happens, on such a scale, makes you wonder, how can so many people fall for this?

Does it?

If you're going to work every day to make a dollar, and your friend just sits on his ass and plays video games and makes a dollar every day off his CryptoKitty investments - and you can see the actual money in your friend's account - after a certain period of time, it's hard for anyone to resist, no matter how dumb it sounds.

Even Newton lost all his money in the South Sea Bubble... Twice!

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#150

Post by pazimzadeh »

CharlesW wrote: post #147
pazimzadeh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The people who benefit the most from the current system are the already rich, who can afford to the legal fees and come up with creative defenses. Crypto also benefits the rich (like everything), but not as disproportionately as the current legal system. This debate reminds me of the nature vs nurture debate in biology. It's a mirage. In reality, it's nature via nurture. Similarly, there is no inherent divid…

> Crypto also benefits the rich (like everything), but not as disproportionately as the current legal system. Are you sure? The WSJ says that 0.01% of all holders control 27% of Bitcoin, vs. the top 1% of households who control about a third of all U.S. wealth. https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoins-one-percent-controls-l...

You're missing the point. The point is that the poorest Bitcoin wallet is as secure as the richest wallet.

Whereas in legal-land, the more money you have, the better your lawyers (and whatnot) you can hire.

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