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Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

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Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#251

Post by Animats »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #72
jedberg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't prevent it, but it gives you recourse to make yourself whole again, and in a sense prevents a lot of funny business because people are afraid of getting caught and being put in jail.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

As many are finding as the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission works down their case backlog.[1] Four enforcement actions in the last week. Kim Kardashian paid $1.1 million for hyping some crypto product without disclosing how much she was paid to do so.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#252

Post by tekknik »

netheril96 wrote: post #243
gitfan86 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be a "told you so" person, but since 2010 I've been saying bitcoin is just a typical libertarian pipe dream. Yes I missed out on a large financial bubble, but I also made $0 on beanie babies, and that is fine. But my main point is that people see a problem with the government and jump to the conclusion that we should just get rid of the whole institution without understanding the history of that institution…

None of the things you mention are directly related to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has no bridges or DeFi. Only the blockchains with smart contracts (e.g. Ethereum) can have those.

But it will need all of those things to be more useful than the current system. People don’t mail cash to buy products anymore. People transfer cash to exchanges and are safe from attacks like this. Bitcoin and other crypto must provide the same functionality or it will not gain traction.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#253

Post by tekknik »

lmm wrote: post #229
maccard wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that this is an alternative to a small card that is widely accepted internationally that I can reclaim a transaction with a quick phone call.

Until the operators decide for their own mysterious reasons to make your small card stop working, or that you suddenly owe them a bunch of money you never had, or both at the same time.

How is any of this possible in the real world? If my bank says I owe them money, it’s on them to prove it. If they can’t I can easily take them to court.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#254

Post by tekknik »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #228
maccard wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that this is an alternative to a small card that is widely accepted internationally that I can reclaim a transaction with a quick phone call.

I’m not a crypto fanatic but credit and debit cards are very susceptible to fraud

But in those cases the user gets their money back. This isn’t the case with crypto.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#255

Post by tekknik »

redox99 wrote: post #180
Bloedcoin wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how other crypto bros would say the opposite. But hey now you got my interest: if it's not for normal people for whom is crypto then in your opinion?

I'm not sure, it depends on how good the UX and trustless/low trust custodial services get[1]. I don't think crypto will ever be for "my grandma" for example. But I could see it being easy and safe enough for my dad, who knows what phishing is, would understand what private keys are, etc. [1] This is too long to explain but basically something similar to multisig and time locks to add extra security. Nothing like thi…

You said it though, it’s all about the UX. It’s much easier when you have something physical like a card or cash.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#256

Post by lmm »

tekknik wrote: post #253
lmm wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the operators decide for their own mysterious reasons to make your small card stop working, or that you suddenly owe them a bunch of money you never had, or both at the same time.

How is any of this possible in the real world? If my bank says I owe them money, it’s on them to prove it. If they can’t I can easily take them to court.

"Easily" is far from my experience. I eventually got everything back but it took literally years.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#257

Post by tekknik »

sgammon wrote: post #232
prepend wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can blame gold if it is very easy to steal. Or if owners are more likely to have it stolen, etc etc. Crypto has certain vulnerabilities that gold doesn’t. But it also has lots of benefits. But I don’t know of any situations where gold banks let them drive trucks of $40M in gold before they stopped customers. It’s just harder to move.

? Candidly I don't know what you mean, so I will share this anecdote about gold in trucks: there is a building in downtown Chicago, built at the height of the mob days, with an elevator which can lift an entire (full) armored car. It can lift it several stories up, into the building, where the bank can unload it safely without risk of robbery. Also, of course, you can't actually steal bitcoin, you can merely steal th…

I can insure gold, bitcoin is much more difficult to insure. In fact, I can have my gold stored in a secure facility that I don’t own yet still retain full ownership rights.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#258

Post by tekknik »

tcgv wrote: post #225
karamanolev wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, no, I don't think language works like that. Let's try to rephrase that with gold: "You CANNOT steal the gold under my mattress. You can steal my keys or break my door, walk in and then move the gold from my house to your car and drive off.". Don't you agree the above is equivalent to me stealing your gold?

That's a good argument, but notice what I'm saying is that stealing the bitcoin wallet keys is the only known way to steal bitcoins (I'm not saying bitcoins cannot be stolen, nor that it would be wrong to phrase that bitcoin was stolen as the result of compromised keys). If you're hiding gold under a bed one could steal your door keys, break the door through brute force, set your door on fire, get in through the wind…

You’re getting into a semantic argument. The idea of someone stealing bitcoins, vs the keys, is an attempt to deviate from the issue/discussion at hand.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#259

Post by unboxingelf »

redox99 wrote: post #143
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. If you give aw…

What is “crypto”? If you hold the keys to some PoS token it’s effectively the same as holding physical fiat dollars. There is crypto and there is Bitcoin, and they are not the same thing.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#260

Post by femiagbabiaka »

tekknik wrote: post #254
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a crypto fanatic but credit and debit cards are very susceptible to fraud

But in those cases the user gets their money back. This isn’t the case with crypto.

People with time get their money back. People without it get nothing back. And that’s not even mentioning the legal scams like overdraft charges… I’m just saying, the existing system sucks too.
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