All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets • Hacker News Board

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#71

Post by thatguy0900 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #50

mattw2121 wrote: post #14

I was recently invited to be a lead on Nextdoor (I know, I know) and accepted so that I could peek behind the curtain. Their process is that any flagged content is voted on by leads to Leave it, Possibly Remove, or Remove. What I've observed is that posts that completely break the rules still have a 50/50 split. My point being that many people are not able to objectively look at something and make a decision. Their o…

> My point being that many people are not able to objectively look at something and make a decision. Their opinions and feelings will always get mixed in. Isn't the idea that individuals will have biases, but on average they will cancel each other out when aggregated together? I don't think that is necessarily true, but I think it is overly simplistic to say that individuals having biases means the consensus of the c…

You can't get a aggregation from the public, not really. Most people won't participate, the only people who will bother are the ones with a axe to grind. Only 66% of people can even be bothered to vote on the president of the us, what's the percent that will spend their free time fact checking on Twitter? Only the ones who really want to push their own facts will do it.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#72

Post by phailhaus » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #52

phailhaus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years of relentless investigations) Please, this is absurd. No president has had more of his associates go to jail than Trump [1], and Mueller's investigation found that Trump knew about Russian interference, chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed…

> chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed justice [2] So then it's totally equivalent to the Hunter Biden laptop in that, while perhaps incriminating, there's no obvious criminal conduct (Mueller didn't press charges). However, it still led to americans voting one way, which the polls show would have also been the case had Americans known about the laptop. Either way, people deserve to know. Our vote…

> Mueller didn't press charges

Fun fact: Mueller had no ability to press charges. He made it clear that it was up to Congress, and would only go as far as to say that "we can't say he didn't obstruct justice", but that it was up to Congress to investigate.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#73

Post by phailhaus » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #70

phailhaus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you have been complaining about cherrypicking facts/narratives by the other side, you need to acknowledge the fact that you are doing that at this very moment. You are handwaving away one of the biggest stories in the DOJ's history, a search warrant executed against a former president . We know he has top secret documents, we know they were not declassified, and we know they were held negligently while mix…

> We know he has top secret documents We do. > we know they were not declassified We do not know this, actually. That is literally what is being litigated at this very moment. > and we know they were held negligently while mixed up with magazines in a comically insecure facility We do not know yet if this even matters... > a search warrant executed against a former president Which is extremely shocking and unusual -…

> We do not know this, actually.

We do. Documents are not declassified by merely "thinking about it" like Trump suggested. There is a process, and declassified documents are still classified until they are marked as such. We've seen the pictures, we know they weren't. So yes, it also matters that they were removed from their folders and mixed up haphazardly with no regard to their security. These are all undeniable facts that Trump's own lawyers have failed to dispute. They won't even say if Trump has returned all the documents as he is required under subpoena, or whether Trump actually declassified them. These are all things he could have done immediately if he was innocent.

> Not even remotely. Hunter's laptop revealed Hunter sold access and influence to the current president, particularly to nations hostile to this country.

Let's use your own attitude against you: where's the official investigation? Do we even know if that's his laptop? Where are the charges? "So far the follow-up investigation has been much more lackluster and much less iron-clad as we were initially led to believe." Namely: nothing.

You are not arguing in good faith. You just want your own narratives to win regardless of merit.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#74

Post by Kye » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #61

protomyth wrote: post #31

I've learned the mob, no matter their political beliefs, doesn't know a damn thing as a group. If there is a technical answer, it used to be possible to get a correct answer, but that is almost always through the view of some political leaning. Frankly, given the utter sh?t-show of YouTube content warnings[0], I have no faith in this crud. This just seems like a bots paradise to influence opinion and ban people. 0) t…

I have never in my entire life expected the truth from the crowd. Why on earth would you do that if truth was truly your concern? These proposals seem to ignore this basic reality. They also presume that peoples primary desire in communication with one another is truth. Our entire system of language belies that idea entirely. The condescension of it all gets to me as well, as if you give everyone the unvarnished trut…

"Wisdom of the crowd" used to be one of the big selling points of the internet. Like most early optimism, it collapsed on contact with reality as the internet grew.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#75

Post by krapp » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

MichaelCollins wrote: post #65

krapp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These fact checks and warning labels are semantically different enough that arguments from equivalence only work to a point. We know that people can be influenced by what they read on social media, and social media platforms aren't (currently) legally liable for misinformation spread by their users.

> social media platforms aren't (currently) legally liable for misinformation spread by their users. They're politically liable for it. The misinformation warnings on social media aren't there to protect dumb people from misinformation; those people won't heed the warnings. The misinformation warnings are there to keep political heat off the company. Do you think any would-be flat earther has ever been saved by a war…

would be? yes.

I do think there is a point where the effects of radicalization and indoctrination can be mediated by exposure to facts. I seem to differ from most people in that I don't believe that the effect of "sunlight as a disinfectant" is constant, rather I think it's far more effective early on than after someone has already built a bubble of normalized hyperreality around themselves, and is subject to a law of diminishing returns.

To this end, I think fact-checking and deplatforming can be effective tools against the already unbalanced bias towards disinformation provided by social media platforms. At least more effective than simply letting it spread unchecked and hoping things just sort themselves out.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#76

Post by MichaelCollins » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #75

MichaelCollins wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> social media platforms aren't (currently) legally liable for misinformation spread by their users. They're politically liable for it. The misinformation warnings on social media aren't there to protect dumb people from misinformation; those people won't heed the warnings. The misinformation warnings are there to keep political heat off the company. Do you think any would-be flat earther has ever been saved by a war…

would be? yes. I do think there is a point where the effects of radicalization and indoctrination can be mediated by exposure to facts. I seem to differ from most people in that I don't believe that the effect of "sunlight as a disinfectant" is constant, rather I think it's far more effective early on than after someone has already built a bubble of normalized hyperreality around themselves, and is subject to a law o…

The radicalization is driven by the recommendation engines that are the central premise of these platforms. Every would-be flat earther already knows that the roundness of earth is the officially designated truth, putting that warning label on flat earth videos isn't going to change a thing. The only purpose of that label is to take political heat off the platform that is recommending flat earth videos.

These warnings are ass covering, plain and simple. They aren't a service to idiots, they exist to excuse the platform from being fundamentally hazardous.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#77

Post by MichaelCollins » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

Kye wrote: post #74

akira2501 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my entire life expected the truth from the crowd. Why on earth would you do that if truth was truly your concern? These proposals seem to ignore this basic reality. They also presume that peoples primary desire in communication with one another is truth. Our entire system of language belies that idea entirely. The condescension of it all gets to me as well, as if you give everyone the unvarnished trut…

"Wisdom of the crowd" used to be one of the big selling points of the internet. Like most early optimism, it collapsed on contact with reality as the internet grew.

> "Wisdom of the crowd" used to be one of the big selling points of the internet.

I don't think this was true until sometime in the 00s when voting systems were popularized. I don't recall anybody talking about crowd wisdom and hiveminds in the context of IRC chatrooms, mailing lists, or geocity pages. There was an understanding that whoever you were talking to might be smart or might be stupid; there was no crowd mechanism to put false trust in.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#78

Post by pmichaud » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

throwaway22032 wrote: post #27

Errr. And how exactly does the general public know whether something is true in order to vote on it? If they knew it was false this wouldn't be an issue to begin with...

I guess the intuition is that it works like a market to converge on truth, but of course there’s no skin in the game and the metrics are all wrong for actual market dynamics.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#79

Post by kjeetgill » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

MichaelCollins wrote: post #57

HKH2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of Urban Dictionary?

90% of the terms and definitions in urban dictionary read like something a snickering teenager thought up on the spot, not real slang that is/was actually circulating prior to (or after) being added to the site. It's fine because nobody should be taking urban dictionary seriously in the first place; it's just an online amusement. Real dictionaries, even crowdsourced ones like Wiktionary, don't use voting systems like…

Are you reading it top to bottom somehow that you're even coming into contact with slang you haven't heard used? In my experience it's always filled me in on the precise meaning I've needed.

Re: All Twitter users in the US will start to see crowdsourced fact checks on tweets

#80

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #31

I've learned the mob, no matter their political beliefs, doesn't know a damn thing as a group. If there is a technical answer, it used to be possible to get a correct answer, but that is almost always through the view of some political leaning. Frankly, given the utter sh?t-show of YouTube content warnings[0], I have no faith in this crud. This just seems like a bots paradise to influence opinion and ban people. 0) t…

If the mob is so dumb, why do we let them elect our government?