SAT score distributions in Michigan • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#301

Post by hackerlight » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #290

daemoens wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we get to the point where the USA depends on Chinese out migration in order to compete economically or militarily with China, China may well choose to turn off the spigot. America's biggest advantage over other nations is our immigration system, regardless of the myriad issues it has. The best and brightest are born all over the world, and they immigrate to America. Even if China stops immigration, we still have…

Our immigration system is our biggest advantage? Are you sure it's not the thing(s) that makes people want to immigrate here that is our biggest advantage?

You can't separate those things. Immigrants create conditions (prosperity) that make people want to immigrate.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#302

Post by robotbikes » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

zwkrt wrote: post #25

socialismisok wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, where one lives can impact the funding available to even provide basic education. We are too comfortable letting poor areas have underfunded schools.

Funding schools based on local property tax was institutionalized as a way to ensure rich people don’t have to pay for poor people’s education.

And it has continued for decades even after being declared unconstitutional in Ohio. So it is hard to change the attitude many people who live in suburbs have. The movement for integrated schools (https://integratedschools.org/podcasts/) is one group of people trying to fight the racial inequity aspect of this but considering the magnitude of the problem it is a big hill to climb.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#303

Post by bilbo0s » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

Gareth321 wrote: post #244

shafoshaf wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised that Asians only make up 4.6% of the total students, where Whites are nearly 69%. I'm not sure that we can make too many observations about Asians when the sample is so low. Might be interesting to see how those demographics compare in CA where Asians are 16.91% of the population. ( https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/asian-popul... )

Universities across American have been racially discriminating against Asians for decades. It's so bad that a case against Harvard has now been accepted by the Supreme Court ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v... ). There is a good chance that the case finally abolishes the longstanding practise of institutional racism against Asians, and any other race which might otherwise be granted admi…

and any other race which might otherwise be granted admission in excess of their general population composition

Which seems to be, at least at Michigan according to the data submitted, only "mixed" kids. Which I would not have thought given how the narrative is generally pushed in this conversation. How could we have collectively missed that for so long? Or maybe it was only me who didn't realize how well kids in this "mixed" category seem to do relative their population percentage?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#304

Post by TeeMassive » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

> to offer an educational system that provides access to quality education regardless of parental involvement

That seems very naive to think that school overcome the impact of parenting. If a child doesn't have its physical and psychological needs met then there's not much the school can do. School can't make children do their homework at home either.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#305

Post by scombridae » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

That PISA chart was an egregiously bad layout.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#306

Post by cm2187 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #211

BeetleB wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear if you're trying to contest with the parent or agree with him, but you are doing the latter.

> you are doing the latter Not necessarily. If intelligence is genetic, then by OP's hypothesis, immigrants are more likely to be intelligent and pass that on to their children - whereas GP's hypothesis (seems to suggest) that intelligence is effectively random but determination is what's passed down from parent to child. Of course, it's probably a combination of both.

And I'd argue it doesn't really matter because whether it is one or the other, it is highly transmissible, and there isn't much you can do about it as a matter of public policy, unless you take away children from their parents.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#307

Post by nradov » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

netheril96 wrote: post #175

UncleMeat wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ is highly correlated with nutrition. Very likely, being food-insecure has a direct causal effect of lowering IQ. It isn't a thing fixed from birth.

Do Asian Americans have better nutrition than other categories?

It would seem so. CDC statistics show that people who identify as Asian have a lower obesity rate compared to other racial and ethnic categories. Obesity is known to cause decreased cognitive function.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#308

Post by ffwszgf » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #284

This is almost completely explained by income. https://statisticalatlas.com/state/Michigan/Household-Income

There’s actually a very interesting 1995 research paper that studied the relationship between SAT scores and race and family income.

In every single money bracket white and Asian students outperformed URMs. Perhaps most surprisingly white students whose parents made less than 10k a year performed roughly equal to black students whose parents earned between 60-70k a year.

These numbers are almost 30 years old but id doubt there’s been some massive change. It’s reductive and not accurate at all to boil it down to just socioeconomics. There’s obviously more going on but there’s sadly very little research going on that is not heavily ideologically motivated (on both sides).

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#309

Post by throwaway6734 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

thwayunion wrote: post #197

jaqalopes wrote: post #115

This data is certainly stark, but I don’t see how it follows from test scores in Michigan that China is going to do something or other regarding STEM. I guess the core assumption here is that Asian students in America are a proxy for Chinese students in China? As someone who works exclusively with Chinese high schoolers as a college application coach, I find this hard to believe. The thing that Asians very definitely…

> The USA is home to the vast majority of leading universities, and no amount of PISA score dominance by Chinese children can change that. Those leadership placements are measured primarily by academic standards, and particularly research output. In CS, over 60% of PhD students -- the food soldiers of academia -- are here on student visas. Another huge fraction are first gen residents/citizens. I'd guess fewer than 2…

>If we get to the point where the USA depends on Chinese out migration in order to compete economically or militarily with China, China may well choose to turn off the spigot. We should welcome immigration but also need home grown talent.

You're massively overselling the impact of academics. Although they are important, the other machineries of society are more so.

There's no reason to think that these same students would excel or contribute as much at home.

I do somewhat agree with the latter. I think foreign students are more aggressive to meet criteria to get into PhD programs and to slave away for advisors because they have far fewer options than native students.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#310

Post by davidn20 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

raunak wrote: post #251

davidn20 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is racial in the sense that's the way people have been grouping things. Else we wouldn't even have this conversation. There would be no inequality of races because the grouping wouldn't exist in the first place. I hesitate, to think obstacles are the reason why things are the way they are. Again, going back to sports. Black people faced all the same obstacles in the sport arena and still came out on top. Also, Asi…

This is such a bad-faith comment and so dog-whistly that I feel wrong for even engaging with it, but I have to. > Black people faced all the same obstacles in the sports arena? No, African-Americans endured physical slavery for hundreds of years, leading to a disposition for physical work. Africans also come from a continent with the hottest average temperature, and in general are more athletically inclined. And let'…

I agree, I'm simplifying the issue. But I feel like you're agreeing with me. You stated all the reason why African-Americans history and culture is different.

If it has nothing to do with "race" let's stop talking about race.