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SAT score distributions in Michigan

infoproc.blogspot.com

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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#261

Post by f154hfds »

someguydave wrote: post #116
faeriechangling wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. Is there any way to prove/disprove this? Also doesn’t this also beg the question as to why non-Asian parents apparently won’t teach their kids to be good academics?

Yes there is a way, you put kids in test prep and see if they do better. They generally do not improve much. The SAT is an IQ test, and IQ is mostly inherited from your parents.

I don't think the SAT is an IQ test. I'm sure IQ helps but parents clearly have a pivotal role - the single biggest external factor to explain variation in score perhaps. Surely the biggest factor in SAT scores is how much you the student _care_ about the SAT score. Why do you care? Maybe because your parents care, maybe because your parents don't care? At the end of the day parents are crucial to the success of their children positively and negatively.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#262

Post by someguydave »

netheril96 wrote: post #170
someguydave wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is a way, you put kids in test prep and see if they do better. They generally do not improve much. The SAT is an IQ test, and IQ is mostly inherited from your parents.

So you are saying that Asians have higher intelligence, and not just a little bit higher, but significantly higher than other race?

of the ones present in Michigan, yes.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#263

Post by sitkack »

snarf21 wrote: post #229
Aunche wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer tutor teens in the SAT and the problem is a bit deeper than just parents. A few of my students have a similar amount of base intelligence as me, and if they studied as much as I did, they would have no problem with finding a path of least resistance to the upper-middle/lower-upper class. The problem is that even if I'm 100% sure this path exists, they are skeptical because it seems like I'm in a entirely…

This is why (imo), test prep should be a class you take at school. Why should it be a separate thing and a multi billion dollar industry? A lot of the SAT/ACT prep for HS students is about understanding how the tests work and how to approach questions. We already have a bunch of federally mandated AYP testing (no) thanks to No (ALL?) Child Left Behind, why can't this just be old copies of the ACT or SAT. By the time…

That is probably the reason it isn't taught at school. School itself does very little to encourage class mobility, starting from being funded by local property taxes.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#264

Post by raunak »

fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

I'm a current sophomore at Harvard, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But those ECs and stats really aren't impressive enough to even qualify him for admission at any Ivy or T20.

UIUC and UT Austin I agree, little surprising, but again, the CS program is very competitive, and it doesn't surprise me he didn't get in. Stats are irrelevant for Asians - if you have a 1500+ you're considered "good", you can't gain anything by having a 1580 vs. a 1520 for example. It really does come down to your essays, extracurriculars, and overall 'package'. Which I genuinely believe is the most fair way to accept folks into college.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#266

Post by ryan93 »

kirevmaco wrote: post #241

It's just testing and rewarding people who studied for the stupid test, that's all. It also rewards conformist personalities. It reminds me of undergrad calculus, where you had to memorize how to do dozens of types of integrals. You're not supposed to ask "what does dx mean?" Asking those types of questions will give you a worse grade. I remember back when I was supposed to "study" for this thing. I asked "if it's an…

Schools do teach what "dx" is. But it is important for upper level engineering and physics to know "dozens" of integrals.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#269

Post by sokoloff »

ryan93 wrote: post #147
lupire wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower the ceiling and admit by lottery. End the artificial scarcity in education. Tax the rich to fund it.

How does that change anything? Kids who barely miss out on MIT arent sleeping on the streets. They are at good state schools or other top privates.

Indeed, and there are some studies to back that up.

Excerpt from https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/does-it-ma...

But what appears obvious may not be true. In November 2002, the Quarterly Journal of Economics published a landmark paper by the economists Stacy Dale and Alan Krueger that reached a startling conclusion. For most students, the salary boost from going to a super-selective school is “generally indistinguishable from zero” after adjusting for student characteristics, such as test scores. In other words, if Mike and Drew have the same SAT scores and apply to the same colleges, but Mike gets into Harvard and Drew doesn’t, they can still expect to earn the same income throughout their careers. Despite Harvard’s international fame and energetic alumni outreach, somebody like Mike would not experience an observable “Harvard effect.” Dale and Krueger even found that the average SAT scores of all the schools a student applies to is a more powerful predictor of success than the school that student actually attends.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#270

Post by commandlinefan »

treis wrote: post #45
fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? IMHO it's sour grapes from someone that tried to game the system but didn't get the prize they wanted.

> game the system

Getting good grades is "gaming the system" now?

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