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SAT score distributions in Michigan

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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#241

Post by kirevmaco »

It's just testing and rewarding people who studied for the stupid test, that's all. It also rewards conformist personalities.

It reminds me of undergrad calculus, where you had to memorize how to do dozens of types of integrals. You're not supposed to ask "what does dx mean?" Asking those types of questions will give you a worse grade.

I remember back when I was supposed to "study" for this thing. I asked "if it's an aptitude test, how does it make sense to study for it?" No one could give me a good answer so I decided it was stupid and never studied for it. I thought it was disgusting that so many people were paying for services, books, etc. to specifically prepare for the test even though the whole pretense of the thing is that you're not supposed to be able to do that.

On the other hand, I loved a lot of the AP stuff (chemistry, physics, calculus) since you were rewarded based on understanding the actual content of a subject, a system that made sense. But it's a good thing I didn't think to ask what "dx" meant back then, otherwise I would have probably gotten a worse score.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#242

Post by treis »

danans wrote: post #213
treis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a commonly held myth but the numbers don't bear it out. Poor areas tend to be in cities and cities tend to have lots of commercial buildings that pay tax but do not send kids to school. Atlanta, where I live, spends 30%* more per pupil in APS than the surrounding suburban counties do. That's typical for American cities. *Or so. I'm going off memory.

> Atlanta, where I live, spends 30%* more per pupil in APS than the surrounding suburban counties do. If you look a bit deeper at public school funding in more well-off areas and you will usually find a system of tax-deductible private donations to the school, organized by a PTA or similar organization. Much of the spending difference vanishes when you consider that. When you count the value of the PTA volunteer time…

>If you look a bit deeper at public school funding in more well-off areas and you will usually find a system of tax-deductible private donations to the school, organized by a PTA or similar organization. Much of the spending difference vanishes when you consider that.

Do you have a cite with those numbers?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#243

Post by commandlinefan »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #220
qsort wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should not, because race is a useless concept. There are traits individuals can have, some of which are immutable, and some of which correlate with what we call "race". But race itself is, even taking the most benign meaning possible, at best a surrogate. The sooner we get rid of that awful meme the better.

>We should not, because race is a useless concept. This may be true, but I find it interesting that white people are the only ones who think this way. Every other group has in-group racial bias, and actively organizes to that end.

> white people are the only ones who think this way

Not really - Asians are pretty quick to point out that lumping Japanese immigrants in with Indian immigrants makes for a pretty meaningless classification.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#244

Post by Gareth321 »

shafoshaf wrote: post #124
warner25 wrote: post #111

I think I'm mostly surprised to see how many of the "White" scores are so low, and so far behind "Asians," after years of hearing that the test is biased towards white / Anglo / native-English speakers raised in Western culture. I'm also reminded that I (like probably most people commenting on Hacker News) exist in a really small bubble in which everyone I closely associate with was in the top two bands (after going…

I was surprised that Asians only make up 4.6% of the total students, where Whites are nearly 69%. I'm not sure that we can make too many observations about Asians when the sample is so low. Might be interesting to see how those demographics compare in CA where Asians are 16.91% of the population. ( https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/asian-popul... )

Universities across American have been racially discriminating against Asians for decades. It's so bad that a case against Harvard has now been accepted by the Supreme Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v...). There is a good chance that the case finally abolishes the longstanding practise of institutional racism against Asians, and any other race which might otherwise be granted admission in excess of their general population composition.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#245

Post by fny »

thwayunion wrote: post #223
mberning wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re an outlier. That’s great. Most people are not scoring that high without a lot of effort, and a basic public school education, regardless of the quality, is not going to get them there. They will need additional resources within the home and outside of normal schooling.

Also, "public school" doesn't mean anything in the US in terms of educational quality. Some public schools are better resourced with more blue blood attendees than any but the richest of private schools.

This is my point. Literacy rates in the US blow compared to other developed countries.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#246

Post by xeromal »

lexapro wrote: post #104
athew wrote: post #18

I find it very surprising that the term "Asian" lives in this twilight zone where nobody is sure if it includes India, the second largest country in the region. For the SAT distribution tables, the term Asian includes Indians I assume, while the following table from the German professor does not break out India. smh.

India is clearly in Asia. So yes, by definition Indians are Asians.

So is europe. It's all the same continent.

At least in the US, Indians aren't considered Asians.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#247

Post by googlryas »

geraldwhen wrote: post #68
mberning wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re an outlier. That’s great. Most people are not scoring that high without a lot of effort, and a basic public school education, regardless of the quality, is not going to get them there. They will need additional resources within the home and outside of normal schooling.

None of my friends scored below 1400 and none had tutors. All public school.

1400 is 93rd percentile. The odds of, say, 7 random kids scoring above the 93rd percentile is pretty small. I bet you drew your friends from AP/honors classes, or from some nerdy/academic pursuit.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#248

Post by nluken »

thwayunion wrote: post #223
mberning wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re an outlier. That’s great. Most people are not scoring that high without a lot of effort, and a basic public school education, regardless of the quality, is not going to get them there. They will need additional resources within the home and outside of normal schooling.

Also, "public school" doesn't mean anything in the US in terms of educational quality. Some public schools are better resourced with more blue blood attendees than any but the richest of private schools.

A lot of people forget about this point. Arbitrary municipal boundaries are set up all across the US to create pseudo-private schools that, while public, are really only accessible to people who can afford to live in the very pricy areas that make up those school district. I grew up in an affluent area and went to a private catholic high school. The public school I would have gone to had better average test scores and way more funding/resources than my school, and indeed the majority of the private schools in the area.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#249

Post by sokoloff »

Transfinity wrote: post #118
wjnc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a quick note on the word 'push'. We all now the 'tiger parenting' trope. Those parents exists and it makes a difference (with clear 'pushing', which I see as a negative). But with maths I think it's a bit more subtle. Just the tiny things (even just 'talk' math) you do in early education can make a massive return later. There is no 'mean' in maths education even in ages 4-10 (my kids). We live in the Netherlands…

I saw a similar effect teaching at a coding school for adults: one of our strongest predictors for success was whether or not the student had someone close to them who was in tech. Having someone outside the system to practice lingo, talk about culture, or give an opinion on what topics matter makes a huge difference. I see no reason why grade school math would be different - I know my parents made a huge difference…

Kids are incredibly perceptive as to "what matters in this family". If parents show an interest in how the kid is doing in school, kids see that school is important. If parents show an interest in whether they won or lost a sports game, kids learn that's important. If parents show no interest but someone else does, whatever that person values takes on an outsized importance in the kids' life.

"Just being there to talk" is more than half the battle (but also more than half the time investment) pretty much no matter the topic.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#250

Post by ryan93 »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #33
arolihas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that abhorrent to you?

The real world is not a monoculture so why would you want your child to socialize in one?

IF that is what harvard is doing why do they STRONGLY prefer black immigrants over descendants of slavery.
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