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SAT score distributions in Michigan

infoproc.blogspot.com

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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#141

Post by jimbob45 »

aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

Don’t forget apathy. I easily qualified for every college in my state with my scores and out-of-state tuition meant there was no reason to ever push any harder for a better score.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#142

Post by acomjean »

armchairhacker wrote: post #15
fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

The kid got accepted to UMass Amherst and Northeastern University. Those colleges are really highly-rated for CS, and Northeastern in particular has recently become really selective. The college rejections are weird, yes, but I don’t feel bad for him

Those are decent schools, though I may be biased as they are my undergraduate and graduate schools respectively.

Getting something out of College is a lot of what you put into it. At Umass we had students who didn't go to class and did rather poorly. Many left. We had some who worked really hard and went on to Ivy league grad schools. Northeastern had the Coop program which was really useful for friends that went there undergrad to get work experience. Some of college is luck (who you end up meeting, if classes give you background on work. My CS Operating Systems class was invaluable for me in my first post grad school job)

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#143

Post by lapcat »

sokoloff wrote: post #63
flatline wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t provide free access to test prep. We don’t provide equal access to parents and friends who are enthusiastic and pushed to do well on these tests. We don’t provide equal access to a culture that values academics over, say, sports and entertainment.

What would the end state of the latter part of look like? Taking kids away from their families at birth and raising them in state not-quite-orphanages? Even the concept that academics should be valued over other topics should be a matter of family choice. If you want to prioritize music, art, sports, food, entertainment, fitness, religion, or something else over academics, should society over-ride that?

> What would the end state of the latter part of look like? Taking kids away from their families at birth and raising them in state not-quite-orphanages?

In other words, Plato's Republic.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#145

Post by z7 »

treis wrote: post #107
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point, anything you do that doesn't flow from some deep internal fire so powerful it overwhelms any external circumstance "doesn't count"?

My point is that "quality of parents" shouldn't be the way we pick the elite

Why not extend this to attractiveness, general health, enviromental factors like air pollution, gender, quality of local libraries, height etc., all likely influencing an individual's success in life?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#146

Post by ChemSpider »

"PRC... K12 performance on international tests like PISA is similar to what is found in the table above for the Asian category"

Not true. Only a very few select schools China are allowed to participate in the PISA test. It would be like only allowing the top private Boston and Stanford high-schools to join.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#147

Post by ryan93 »

lupire wrote: post #105
adamsmith143 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standardized tests aren't perfect but there isn't anything better. There's no better way for a poor kid with high drive to compete with rich kids. That's why MIT decided to bring back scores in admission. There isn't a better solution.

Lower the ceiling and admit by lottery. End the artificial scarcity in education. Tax the rich to fund it.

How does that change anything? Kids who barely miss out on MIT arent sleeping on the streets. They are at good state schools or other top privates.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#148

Post by thwayunion »

treis wrote: post #45
fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? IMHO it's sour grapes from someone that tried to game the system but didn't get the prize they wanted.

It's a real shame that this guy posted his son's resume non-anonymously, but I have to agree.

Aside from grades and AP scores, it's a lot of "showing up" dressed up as accomplishment. JV track explains itself, the debate stuff is the equivalent of getting third place in one track event at one regional meet, and Eagle Scout is impressive but IMO doesn't show anything that doing well in school doesn't already show.

Everyone applying to CMU CS or Harvey Mudd has high GPAs, high standardized test scores, and lots of 4s and 5s on AP tests. So the extra curricular stuff really does matter, because there are way fewer seats than people with good grades and test scores. And in this applicant's case, the ECs just are not there.

The applicants who are setting themselves apart via debate are consistently doing well at the best national tournaments in the most demanding and competitive formats for years; not getting 3rd place in Congressional at one regional tournament. The ones setting themselves apart with track are participating in Varsity at least a few years, doing well at State, and a likely courting at least D2 athletic scholarships. The ones who are setting themselves apart via scouting are going way beyond the minimum requirements for Eagle Scout.

Also, Northeastern and Amherst have fantastic CS programs and getting into CS programs like those at Harvey Mudd or CMU is probably harder than getting into ivies these days.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#149

Post by edflsafoiewq »

treis wrote: post #107
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point, anything you do that doesn't flow from some deep internal fire so powerful it overwhelms any external circumstance "doesn't count"?

My point is that "quality of parents" shouldn't be the way we pick the elite

No they should be picked for "ability", and it's all the same whether that "ability" was inculcated by good parenting or not.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#150

Post by a2tech »

fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

He applied for Computer Science, so I looked at the University of Michigan's Engineering School SAT scores, and he was just a bit over the median score for the engineering school. Since admissions at these schools is slammed with applications its not unreasonable that he just didn't get in because he was in an ocean of similar applications.
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