Admittedly, I haven't been paying attention, but since when does MI do SAT? We all took the ACT when I was in school.
SAT score distributions in Michigan
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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#92"Omitted variable bias" is what is going on here and is a statistical term that everyone needs to understand because it is causing so many race issues in America. The feature that is missing in this simplistic model of intelligence is cultural values. I am definitely not a racist but I am a "culturalist". Some people have a set of personal values (culture) that express themselves as doing better or worse in standardi…
OK, assuming you are correct, what's the root cause of difference in time spent studying? If the primary cause is less study time spent by black and brown students, how do you address that?
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#93"Omitted variable bias" is what is going on here and is a statistical term that everyone needs to understand because it is causing so many race issues in America. The feature that is missing in this simplistic model of intelligence is cultural values. I am definitely not a racist but I am a "culturalist". Some people have a set of personal values (culture) that express themselves as doing better or worse in standardi…
[deleted]
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#94The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…
Just a quick note on the word 'push'. We all now the 'tiger parenting' trope. Those parents exists and it makes a difference (with clear 'pushing', which I see as a negative). But with maths I think it's a bit more subtle. Just the tiny things (even just 'talk' math) you do in early education can make a massive return later. There is no 'mean' in maths education even in ages 4-10 (my kids). We live in the Netherlands…
maybe pushing is the wrong word but i would say parents who care about their child's education have children who score substantially higher than children who don't have parents who care. And "caring" is highly related to family stability and the education level of one or both parents. Where education level manifests itself is in how a parent cares. My uneducated mom (who is asian) asked us to study and get good grades (an asian cultural value), but she couldn't really tel if we were actually "studying" since she was uneducated. Now the asian values meant that i at-least got "bare minimum" grades compared to other races of people but i never had enough "care" to excel (which i think i could have done). Now imagine a group of people with neither cultural values emphasizing education nor educated parents who might have their child's best interest and tell them to 'study and work hard' but given the circumstances and how kids will be kids, it is very very difficult for those kids to achieve.
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
The SATs also allow for children with non parental involvement but talent to excel because it's a simple process: take a test
Exactly. You can’t hide a high IQ, even though parental and societal involvement will always act as a multiplier on what a kid can naturally do.
You can hide a high IQ with starvation, sleep deprivation, withholding books from a child, and stress hormones from an unsafe environment.
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> different race, in general, have different culture, values, and strengths The coarse divisions that we call "race" don't help much here, either - there's a lot of variance between different groups of asians as well as different groups of whites (think of how different italians are from irish). The way we're lumped together is actually very arbitrary (and changes depending on how the lumpers are trying to score poli…
Are the divisions arbitrary if they are reflected in objective measures of athleticis and scholastics?
Neither athletic nor scholastic performance are objective measures. Sports are contests of arbitrary skills, that on the highest level require time intensive and expensive commitment since basically childhood, and whatever method you choose to measure scholastic performance with it's never going to be free of class/geographic/cultural factors.
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#97The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…
> an educational system that provides access to quality education regardless of parental involvement. I do wonder if this is possible. If you up the baseline of school provision, won’t involved parents provide a further advantage over and above that?
When you talk about some of the least served communities, there is a lot of moving from school to school as people move from one housing solution to another. My wife taught in public school and out of the 35 students in a class there might have been a third to 40% who stayed with her the whole semester. She would have two extra pages of names of students who came and went throughout the year.
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#98puts head in the sand
if anybody doubts that the future isn't in the US (or rather, the west), this is the evidence. China has both the brains and brawn to bully every other nation (provided it doesn't collapse under its own weight)
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's hardly simple to prep for the SAT. It requires time and money and space.
I dont buy this argument for a second. You can buy a used sat prep book for cheap or even borrow one from a library. Practice twice a week leading up to the test with practice tests once every two weeks. taking a prep course will help, but thats not necessary at all.
Practicing won't teach you language and math.
Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan
#100This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...
I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? IMHO it's sour grapes from someone that tried to game the system but didn't get the prize they wanted.
What's your point, anything you do that doesn't flow from some deep internal fire so powerful it overwhelms any external circumstance "doesn't count"?