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SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

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Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#31

Post by madamelic »

kodah wrote: post #16
Raed667 wrote: post #9

Can someone explain why is meta entitled to see a 3rd party's business plans, financials and statistics?

It's explained in the post. The FTC accused them of being anti-competitive. The only way to show you're not anti-competitive is to demand documents of your opponents that demonstrate you still have competition.

Seems like a "I'll know when I see it" situation. In that, if the FTC thinks they are anti-competitive, they probably are and at least should be blocked from acquiring their competition.

Breaking them up or taking actual action against them would require deeper investigation with FTC taking the lead rather than potentially handing sensitive documents over to the offending company.

If the company wants to fight the block of acquisitions would foot the bill for everyone being supeonaed along with the FTC's expenses regardless of the case's success.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#32

Post by [deleted] »

throbintrash wrote: post #14
LeonenTheDK wrote: post #8

Well that is unfortunate. I would not want to be in Simula's position, I'm sure they've got enough on their plate without having to deal with stuff like this that they barely have an impact on in the first place. I understand that Meta needs to prove they're not a monopoly, and apparently the way to do that is through other companies laying their cards on the table, but my goodness would I feel uncomfortable giving c…

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#33

Post by moron4hire »

georgewsinger wrote: post #6
endominus wrote: post #3

From their post, it appears that Simula don't intend to comply with the subpoena. IANAL. Does receipt of these documents carry an obligation to provide the documents and deposition requested? Does this open them to later legal action if they refuse? It seems like a strange thing for a corporation to be able to demand that other companies hand over stuff like this, no matter the circumstance.

Just to clarify: we're seeking legal counsel and intend to comply with the law. Many other larger companies have fought these subpoenas (Snap, etc) and, as far as we can tell, still had to hand over items.

I know it's not helpful at this point, but you really should have had a relationship with a lawyer already. But now is the next best time. This is just the first time you're running into issues. As you grow, you're almost guaranteed to hit more. You'd also be smart to have a lawyer available to review all of your intellectual property, terms of service, privacy policies, etc.

I'm just a solo punter myself, but having my legal counsel already setup, knowing that I can call them at any time, rather than having to scramble to find someone in the moment a problem happens, gives me a lot of peace of mind.

Given how you're positioned as an Open Source company, maybe the Electronic Frontier Foundation can help you find someone good.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#34

Post by JeezusJuiceTPR »

Raed667 wrote: post #9

Can someone explain why is meta entitled to see a 3rd party's business plans, financials and statistics?

IANAL, so take this with some salt, but I don’t think Meta is directly requesting the documents, and Meta is probably never going to see them. I don’t think they get to request everything and pick through it to find a defense.

Subpoenas come from the court (which is how they’re able to be legally binding, i.e. you can be held liable—-in contempt—-for not complying), so my guess is that the court will review the various documents for evidence that Simula is or isn’t a competitor, so as to decide both whether they fit the bill as a competitor, and whether they’ll be needed during a trial. I imagine that the court can even decide that Simula does not provide evidence in either direction, so they’ll uninvolve Simula.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#35

Post by dugmartin »

bombcar wrote: post #17
ajross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A subpoena is a court order (and the service requirement constitutes legal proof that it was delivered). Refusal to comply is contempt, which can be punished as a crime. No, you don't get to ignore a subpoena. In this particular case it looks like they're just being asked to testify about their product in an unrelated case. They aren't being sued. Call your lawyer first and do what they say. Most likely you can arran…

Who pays for all the costs associated with this? Can you abuse the legal system to drive a company into bankruptcy by repeatedly subpoenaing them?

There are anti-SLAPP laws but those are for more for protecting freedom of speech:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_publ...

but you can be labeled a "vexatious litigant" which causes you to be radioactive for representation (nobody wants to disbarred):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation

(IANAL but I enjoy watching them on TV)

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#36

Post by meesterdude »

throbintrash wrote: post #29
marcinzm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter how other companies are to their point?

I'm just saying there are no ethical companies of that size so it's a disengineous point to bring up. the deeper realization is that is not fair (nor conducing to good social outcome) to try and hold an entity such as Meta (formerly facebook) to individual person standards such as being ethical. this is more important in other discussions around rights of corporations (and other comparalby powerful institutions) in c…

> so it's a disengineous point to bring up.

In the public eye, Meta is particularly unethical. It's a large part of their current downfall. So I don't agree with you that it is a disingenuous point.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#38

Post by micromacrofoot »

throbintrash wrote: post #29
marcinzm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter how other companies are to their point?

I'm just saying there are no ethical companies of that size so it's a disengineous point to bring up. the deeper realization is that is not fair (nor conducing to good social outcome) to try and hold an entity such as Meta (formerly facebook) to individual person standards such as being ethical. this is more important in other discussions around rights of corporations (and other comparalby powerful institutions) in c…

What makes it not fair? Arguably if we can't hold a company to be ethical, wouldn't the individual concept of "fairness" also be off the table?

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#39

Post by JeezusJuiceTPR »

dsign wrote: post #27

This is not Meta demanding to see some privilege information that exists in Simula's drawers, but rather commandeering the entire competing organization to do market research for Meta. It is clever and evil, and nothing anybody says after this will make me think that Meta is not anti-competitive nor that they have an once of ethics. As a consumer, I doubt I will ever again consider their VR products; I rather give my…

I don’t really know the rules of evidence, but I don’t think this is coming directly from Meta, nor that they’re allowed to review these documents themselves. The subpoena has to come from the court, and so I imagine it’s the court reviewing the documents, not Meta. I sure hope that’s how it works. I’d love for a lawyer to chime in, though.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#40

Post by cableshaft »

>We're don't view ourselves in competition with Meta

>...Meta sells reasonably good gaming headsets to customers who want to be entertained in VR; we're selling general-purpose productivity devices which are aimed at replacing PCs and laptops.

Hate to break it to you, but if you don't think that Mark Zuckerberg is actively trying to create VR devices that are general-purpose productivity devices aimed at replacing PCs and laptops, you haven't been watching some of their recent videos about the new headsets and prototype headsets they're working on. He very much is aiming for that market with future devices (not the Quest 2).

Here's a couple:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMpWH6vDZ8E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zHDkdkqd1I

Also he's described their Project Cambria headset as intended for productivity, as in the following article:

"What’s different about Project Cambria?

The most important description we’ve received about Project Cambria comes from The Information; according to the publication, Meta employees have alternately described the headset as a “laptop for the face” or a “Chromebook for the face.” It’s a device Zuckerberg hopes people will use to get work done rather than being aimed primarily at gamers as with previous headsets."

https://thenextweb.com/news/meta-project-cambria-what-we-kno...

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