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DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

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Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#31
post #16

Diversity of what? Thought? Height? Athletic ability? Age? Hair color? Education?

Let’s not forget IQ, people with low IQ are very marginalized in the field of physics and mathematics. Seriously diversity is a mind virus at this point. North america is one the the most diverse, just equitable place that ever existed in the history of humanity.

It’s almost as if diversity initiatives are for the opposite reason.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a tall person I’ve been frustrated by tallism my entire life. I hit my head all the time. And then I’m mocked for slouching!

I wish there were more tall people that designed urinals and bathrooms. Only tall people will understand this.

When I redo the kitchen we’re going to put the cabinets higher because screw having some default countertop heigh when we could have something designed for us.

The next owners can redo it if they care.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#33
The government is a democratic institution, it’s fairly reasonable in principle for them to try and ensure all their citizens and not some overrepresented group get the benefits of public funding. It is after all PUBLIC funding, every citizen should have equal influence on where it goes, which would predict it being distributed fairly equitably.

> I believe that the vast majority of physicists—even the vast majority of white male physicists—want a more diverse and representative community

I think the trick with this statement is the white people who get screwed by the policy won’t be employable as physicists anymore due to lack of funding so they don’t count as not wanting this since they’re won’t ever become physicists. But sure the elite white physicists will talk about how fantastic this is so they can get invited to parties, it’s not like they will ever become victims of their own rhetoric. It’s obviously the people who will be most adversely affected whose opinions who matter most, and those are the B students, not the established physicists.

The other trick of course is that Asians are going to take the hit far more than Whites are but this isn’t talked about because Asians have more public sympathy. They aren’t thought of as a group with collective racial guilt to the same degree.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#34

You also seem to just self declare on most applications, so claim whatever race/gender/sexuality you want. I am gay. Prove me wrong.

among my generation this has already caught on among some groups of young white women for "diversity clout" if that's a thing. they are all suddenly "bi" and put pride flags in their insta and tiktok bios. prove them wrong. p.s. there are doubtless plenty who are fr but there's a lot of bs too.

I don't mean this as snide as it sounds, but really, who cares?

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#35
post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Why do you feel like neighborhoods need to be static in terms of racial composition, forever? Science is science? Okay then. Is tech tech? It seems that there are more white and Asian people in tech, and Apple is hiring in RDU. Should they not hire the best technologists? Should those technologists not have homes in the area? By “gentrifying”, it seems you just mean white people moving for their jobs. Why isn’t that…

I have no issue with racial composition. I have no issue with Apple hiring the best technologist independent of race. To me, gentrification is a symptom that the people being "displaced" did not have *equal opportunity* to become the best technologists.

This is because funding for upstream programs are ignored in these discussions about student loans, affirmative action, and now DOE grants.

K-12 public schools and literacy rates are shit in the US compared to much of the developed world, and we're sitting here yapping about diversity in applied physics research.

What the actual fuck?

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#36

You also seem to just self declare on most applications, so claim whatever race/gender/sexuality you want. I am gay. Prove me wrong.

among my generation this has already caught on among some groups of young white women for "diversity clout" if that's a thing. they are all suddenly "bi" and put pride flags in their insta and tiktok bios. prove them wrong. p.s. there are doubtless plenty who are fr but there's a lot of bs too.

I've been hetero-exclusive bisexual for years and it's great.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#37
post #28
post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Your plan of action isn't inconsistent: > Researchers seeking funding from the United States’s single biggest funder of the physical sciences will now have to think about how they can structure their own efforts to promote greater participation by researchers and students of color and from other underrepresented groups. ie. If a well endowned university that was recieving DoE grants were to underwrite the expansion o…

Hmm... so we're going to give money to wealthy universities so they can in turn give it to local communities instead of trying to develop good K-12 schools directly?

Brilliant.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#38
post #18

Diversity of what? Thought? Height? Athletic ability? Age? Hair color? Education?

" individuals from diverse backgrounds and groups historically underrepresented in the research community " according to https://science.osti.gov/grants/Applicant-and-Awardee-Resour... , so potentially any of those if you can make that argument, yes. https://science.osti.gov/SW-DEI/DOE-Diversity-Equity-and-Inc... specifically includes " age , ... diversity of thought, technical expertise, and life experiences ."

You won't be able to make that argument. It is pretty clear from the article which way the wind is blowing:

Still, Mason says, she’s encouraged by the initiative. “I’m an optimist,” she says. “I believe that the vast majority of physicists—even the vast majority of white male physicists—want a more diverse and representative community.”

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#39
post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Why do you feel like neighborhoods need to be static in terms of racial composition, forever? Science is science? Okay then. Is tech tech? It seems that there are more white and Asian people in tech, and Apple is hiring in RDU. Should they not hire the best technologists? Should those technologists not have homes in the area? By “gentrifying”, it seems you just mean white people moving for their jobs. Why isn’t that…

Should they not hire the best technologists?

I do worry about the long-term consequences of removing the "natural selection" factor. My best friend growing up was Korean. His parents were dirt-poor but he was still more academically successful than me and got a better job out of university than me. Because he worked the absolute shit out of himself. The idea someone would deny him an opportunity in order to give it to someone else because of their ethnicity who didn't work as hard nauseates me.

By “gentrifying”, it seems you just mean white people moving for their jobs. Why isn’t that allowed in your book? Have black people claimed the Durham area as theirs forever? What nonsense.

White people move in, it's gentrification. White people move out, it's white flight. Some arguments are doomed to intractability from the start.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there were more tall people that designed urinals and bathrooms. Only tall people will understand this.

When I redo the kitchen we’re going to put the cabinets higher because screw having some default countertop heigh when we could have something designed for us. The next owners can redo it if they care.

The house I'm looking at buying has a deck, and I want to redo the stairs such that the steps are calibrated to the gait for people greater than 6' tall. You know what I mean ... steps that are "too short" can be literally painful to walk up.
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