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Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

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Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#211

Post by shanusmagnus »

kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #33
dvt wrote: post #2

I used to like Taleb, but his cult is getting out of hand. Really? You needed Taleb to explain why the classics are good reading? Why literature that has been treasured for the entirety of human history is valuable? Get a grip. Mix that faux-intellectualism--slash--nouveau-englightenment with gross oversimplifications and you have a Taleb cultist. > From Communist Russia's collapse due to Marxism... I'm no Russian sy…

Taleb is another in a long line of people who have accomplished very little outside of selling themselves as a person who Really Understands The WorldTM. His central thesis that models can't account for everything is............................painfully obvious. He's Malcolm Gladwell if Malcom Gladwell's selling point was that he predicted that, during obvious market bubbles, those bubbles would pop.

And if Malcolm Gladwell were a raging aggressive self-aggrandizing asshole.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#212

Post by Bakary »

ordu wrote: post #206
Bakary wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant is that whether Taleb is a conduit to Dostoevsky or not has no bearing on the latter's continued relevance. Dostoevsky's relevance is not in any doubt but Taleb's is (or any other similar author). The GP was a bit hyperbolic but I am inclined to agree with their viewpoint. The intellectual trend they are highlighting (which goes way beyond Taleb) has real consequences because it is so prevalent among tec…

> What I meant is that whether Taleb is a conduit to Dostoevsky or not has no bearing on the latter's continued relevance. Yeah. And then others will come to have no bearing on Dostoevsky's continued relevance. Dostoevsky relevant while there are people to read him. If people didn't read him, then Dostoevsky would be irrelevant, wouldn't he? If all the people die for example, Dostoevsky would be irrelevant then. Isn'…

I am not claiming that techies/economists are a homogenous group. Many of them understand the humanities well; more still reject the idea of an inherent separation between these and the hard sciences. The same is true of some of the more humanities oriented persons, in a mirror image. Every group has its open-minded and close-minded individuals.

The problem isn't Taleb specifically. As it happens, I do like his books quite a bit. He just happens to be a common figure in the problem we are describing here. What is happening is that there is a strong trend in some parts of the tech and science crowd to apply a halo effect to themselves and to reject certain sources of knowledge on account of it. If this halo did not exist, Taleb might not have been the target of obsession because his audience would not have fallen into the belief that they could apply models to everything and call it a day in the first place.

It's true that we could be kinder to people such as the blog post author, and suggest more things to read. But at the same time, reading is not sufficient and a booster shot of self-awareness and humility is needed to move past the halo. To the author's credit, he does write about his rejection of certain types of scientism, but moving past viewing the non-STEM world through a filter is necessary and that in itself requires a shift that is more easily attained by direct confrontation such as what the GP attempted rather than reading your way out of it over a period of years.

Besides, the tech crowd won't be the ones suffering from their way of thinking: they'll have enough capital and surplus to fall back on. It's the rest of the population that is at the mercy of FAANGs and other assorted "move fast and break things" aficionados.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#213

Post by azubinski »

Geeks, nerds and Dostoevsky... Guys, you will never understand anything about life and other people alive today from old books about the life of fictional people, especially written by seriously mentally ill crippled people from the past you do not understand of countries unknown to you.

If you are interested in plots, all possible plots are in the Old Testament. That is why this book lives so long, regardless of any religiosity. It just has all the plots in it. You can also read Winnie the Pooh, but it is better to read this book aloud in the evenings to your children (it's a great pleasure for both children and parents).

Everything else is around you: living non-cardboard people, suffering, joy, communication, freedom, enjoyment of work and idleness, whatever.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#214

Post by Forgeties79 »

mmmpop wrote: post #96
Forgeties79 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there’s a lot to be gleaned here, but all I can focus on is how this - especially the last line - could be easily misrepresented to spread an anti-education message.

> an anti-education message But since when is all reading "education"? I see a lot of people reading a lot of trash and could be spending their time reading Dostoevsky, or better yet plotting their own murder + burglaries !

That’s not really what I said nor do I disagree.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#215

Post by bckr »

oneoff786 wrote: post #197
bckr wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example? I would love to read a blog post about this perspective

Well I don’t write blogs. Or read much. Or write literary reviews. But let’s pick two. The odyssey is a very old classic. The framework of the adventure is still great. But Odysseus is a supremacist dick. He’s pretty similar to MCU Iron Man in terms of narrative and depth. We get the sense that it’s ok to kill the people in his home at the end because he is mighty Odysseus but I think that’s pretty lame. I could go o…

Thanks for this response! Very brave comparing SpongeBob to The Odyssey, but also intriguing.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#216

Post by andrewjl »

frankohn wrote: post #15

Pretty agree with the post but it is funny he discovered that "truth" so late in his life. I generally consider mathematics and physics as being the higher achievements of human knowledge and it is normal to "worship" them as the most important field of study so much that some people dedicate their entire life to them with the same devotion of true monks. It is surprising that the author didn't include Physics in the…

Out of curiosity do you draw a distinction between something like Newtonian physics and areas farther removed from everyday life such as high energy physics?

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#218

Post by kar5pt »

Is there anything in this argument that can't be equally applied to religion? _"Some truth can be captured by the scientific method. But not all. Some deep truths about human nature require instead the reflection provoked by [prayer, religious experience, etc]"_

Maybe there's value in literature, but I don't know if "truth" is the right word for it. I find when people find "truth" in literature, they're mostly using fictional anecdotes to support their preconceived notions about human nature and/or morality. They interpret the books in ways that support what they already think is true.

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