EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#441

Post by nulld3v » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #358

manuelabeledo wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is part of the USB-IF. They also have pushed USB standards to consumers since the iMac. Hell, Apple participates of every single industrial forum they can benefit from. Apple has moved on to USB-C for almost every other product they have. They know Lightning is old and insufficient, even for their iPad Air. The only reason why Apple keeps Lightning around is for phones and some portable accessories, and the rev…

This is not the reason. The reason is, the last time they changed ports (from 30pin to lightning) it created huge blowback from consumers who had lots of 30pin accessories that were no longer compatible, and even though lightning is FAR better people don’t like switching. USB-C is not much different than lightning for charging / connecting a phone, so the blowback from consumers will be huge when all their accessorie…

Meanwhile apple switched the connector for both their laptop and their iPad. So clearly they aren't afraid of blowback.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#442

Post by emaro » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

asgeir wrote: post #368

emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

USB-C has the springs in the plug while the receptacle is only fixed contacts. Lightning on the other hand has the springs inside the receptacle. This means that for USB-C you replace the cable when the springs wear out, but for Lightning you need to replace the port. Cleaning lint out of a USB-C receptacle with a toothpick is safe, but sticking anything into a Lightning port could damage the springs.

Thank you for the clarification. I didn't know that.

In my experience, cleaning the lightning port with the end of a paperclip was never an issue (dust from my pocket liked the spot; always helped when charging got unreliable).

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#443

Post by etiennebausson » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #325

Are there exceptions to this for things like small devices? For instance, my Xiaomi smart watch charges with a USB->magnetic pogo pin adapter and that seems apt for the small size. Way easier than trying to fiddle with a tiny door covering a USB port like on some of my headphones.

Quoting the article:

>> Exemptions will apply for devices that are too small to offer a USB-C port, such as smart watches, health trackers, and some sports equipment, but the legislation is expected to be expanded to other devices over time. Companies will also have to ensure that dedicated labels clearly inform consumers about the charging characteristics of devices they buy.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#444

Post by BadOakOx » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #340

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable. I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Android phones were able to quickly move to micro USB because they weren't restricted from doing so by a government regulation. If there was a government mandate requiring phones t…

> How does a company change to a new/better connector, if it's required by law to use an old connector?

EU is pushing for "One charger for all" for a long time. Here is an article from 2011 [1], so this is nothing new. I don't think they enforced it at the time, but the manufacturers (and the EU?) agreed to use Micro USB. Now they are going for USB-C, so they definitely are not in the way of innovation. I think if there is an agreement between manufacturers to support a new standard, it will be adapted.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/apple/2011/10/4/2469886/apple-relea...

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#445

Post by klausa » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

asgeir wrote: post #368

emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

USB-C has the springs in the plug while the receptacle is only fixed contacts. Lightning on the other hand has the springs inside the receptacle. This means that for USB-C you replace the cable when the springs wear out, but for Lightning you need to replace the port. Cleaning lint out of a USB-C receptacle with a toothpick is safe, but sticking anything into a Lightning port could damage the springs.

On the flipside, this means the thin logic board that connects to the pins is in the host device, not in the cable.

Which means if you break it off, you need to replace the whole port, which might be difficult or expensive; instead of the (relatively) cheap cable.

I _love_ USB-C as a concept, but this alone makes, in my opinion, Lightning the superior physical connector.

And yes, I have had to replace / throw away entire devices because of a USB-C port breaking like this.

Sure, I should be less of a clumsy oaf around my electronics, but I also don't think "not bricking the entire device when extra force is applied to the port" is unreasonable design goal for a physical connector as universal as USB-C is.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#446

Post by nulld3v » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

fullstop wrote: post #304

staringback wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow I Can't Believe My Android Phone Still Uses Micro-USB Since That Was Forced By Law!!! Please think about what you're saying for a moment

You've missed my point, which was that USB connectors on phones have changed over the years and the EU is locking devices into C.

> the EU is locking devices into C.

For now. Why wouldn't the EU be able to just change the law? This mandate passed relatively quickly. Why can't they just repeat this?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#447

Post by nudgeee » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

idkwhoiam wrote: post #380

Just a regular day in the EU. Can the EU pass law for all cars to use the same tyre dimensions? A set of EU approved haircuts would also be very welcome! /s

Closer to mandating common EV charging connectors, which has already happened in the EU (CCS Type 2).

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#448

Post by schmuelio » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #289

emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

Honestly yeah, the standardisation part is fantastic but I absolutely hate that the industry at large settled on USB-C ports that are so pathetically easy to break it's hilarious. Micro-USB and Mini-USB were both far more robust. And also the part where there are a billion specs for the same cable so you never know what you're dealing with. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bluetooth team came up with the standa…

> Micro-USB and Mini-USB were both far more robust.

Micro-USB and USB-C both have the same minimum durability ratings, you may just be buying non-compliant cables (or you're encountering selection bias or something):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#449

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #87

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics companies decide what's best for them. Competition in the smart phone market is done, so consumers no longer have a say. These kinds of interoperability standards are great and would love to see more of them internationally.

Consumers still don't have a say. Now instead of companies choosing what hardware & features are best for their product, and you then choosing products based on your preferences, EU regulators are now forcing companies (and therefore you) to use whatever they think is best. I think in the case of USB-C it's not too bad just because USB-C is widely agreed to be a good connector that's already widely adopted, but there…

[deleted]

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#450

Post by jollybean » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

? how did self regulation fail ? There's nothing wrong with the way iPhone charges. This is an unnecessary intervention. There are plenty of bigger, more relevant fish to fry.