EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#431

Post by tephra » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

rrwo wrote: post #286

kypro wrote: post #34

I like USB-C and would even be in favour of the iPhone using USB-C, but I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves. I do kind of get it though. It's probably better for a whole host of reasons if electronics all used the same cords, but I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things. There would be bene…

> I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves This isn't something created by faceless bureaucrats behind closed doors. The "regulators" are the EU Parliament, who are elected by residents in the various countries. The issue has been talked about for a few years, and was voted on 603 to 13, that's over 96% (includ…

More than a few years, this particular legislation yes but it really started in 2009 where they wanted to mandate micro-usb.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#432

Post by closewith » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

slavoingilizov wrote: post #374

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

Well... I agree with the spirit of the effort, but not the letter of it. >>> From spring 2026, the obligation will extend to laptops So this would force Apple to replace MagSafe with USB-C? How is that not killing innovation? Standardisation should be a goal, but I just feel this particular effort is too specific and brings very little value to consumers. Why don't we standardise payment protocols instead? Or biometr…

> Why don't we standardise payment protocols instead?

Like SEPA and PSD2?

> Or biometric identity verification?

Such as AFIS or maybe EU 2019/1157?

> Or ID cards even (that the UK is allergic to)?

EU 2019/1157 again?

It's not like EU standardisation of chargers is an outlier.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#433

Post by semi-extrinsic » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

a-user-you-like wrote: post #363

pwpw wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bell Labs allowed others to produce transistor based hearing aids royalty free. Volvo allowed others to use a 3-point harness system royalty free. Apple created Lightning to solve a problem and wanted royalties on all products using it. Naturally, the market moved to another solution. While Lightning may be a good piece of technology, I think Apple is largely to blame for its demise. Standardization is good for consu…

USB-C, so good you’re forced to use it!

Lightning vs USB-C is like VHS vs Betamax or HD-DVD vs Bluray, only Apple has sufficient market power it can abuse to avoid the inevitable convergence towards a common standard. It's exactly the correct thing to do for a regulator to step in and fix this.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#434

Post by stingraycharles » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

mrunkel wrote: post #312

vladvasiliu wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the USB2 speed a limitation of the Lightning connector, or is it that Apple just doesn't care to improve this? Because if it's the latter, as you say, there's no guarantee we'll see improved speeds because of the port change.

Apple wants to do away with all external connectors on that phone. My guess is that they won't have any ports once they get rid of the lightning connector.

Not so sure about that, they already added USB-C to many devices, and there are still plenty of use cases where wireless charging is tricky.

I really need a cable to charge my phone while driving, for example.

Additionally, charging wirelessly is much slower, sometimes you just need to be able to charge quickly.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#435

Post by pif » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

> Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me.

I'm sorry that we need a law to instil some common sense into some managers' thick skulls. But I'm happy that EU is showing that in, a sane democracy, no huge corporation can force its will on the people.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#436

Post by AlphaSite » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

nulld3v wrote: post #412

pimterry wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it won't. As parent points out, the EU previously mandated micro-usb support ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply ) which worked fairly well, and hasn't stifled the innovation that's resulted in USB-C.

> the EU previously mandated micro-usb support No they didn't, compliance is voluntary, just read the linked wiki page. I agree with the point that it won't stifle Innovation though. The swift passing of the USB-C mandate has proven to me that the EU can move quickly, so if a new connector comes along they will be able to switch the law reasonably quickly.

This isn’t swift I don’t think, we’ve been hearing about this for years now.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#437

Post by httptoolkit » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

nulld3v wrote: post #412

pimterry wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it won't. As parent points out, the EU previously mandated micro-usb support ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply ) which worked fairly well, and hasn't stifled the innovation that's resulted in USB-C.

> the EU previously mandated micro-usb support No they didn't, compliance is voluntary, just read the linked wiki page. I agree with the point that it won't stifle Innovation though. The swift passing of the USB-C mandate has proven to me that the EU can move quickly, so if a new connector comes along they will be able to switch the law reasonably quickly.

Technically voluntary, but every major phone manufacturer (including Apple) committed to it and followed it (although in Apple's case, with a dongle).

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#438

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #34

I like USB-C and would even be in favour of the iPhone using USB-C, but I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves. I do kind of get it though. It's probably better for a whole host of reasons if electronics all used the same cords, but I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things. There would be bene…

> I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves.

It's not that, it's that companies know what's good for them and consumers are a secondary consideration, if that.

Consider EU mobile phone roaming regulation: it's an unalloyed good. We've gone from expensive and inconvenient roaming charges and roaming add-ons to free roaming at almost no increase in prices. There was initially some increase in very low priced plans yet I have a 2.65 euro a month 1GB data only plan (with full roaming) which is a blindingly good deal.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#439

Post by MichaelZuo » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU.

As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#440

Post by kaba0 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

danielfoster wrote: post #385

kypro wrote: post #34

I like USB-C and would even be in favour of the iPhone using USB-C, but I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves. I do kind of get it though. It's probably better for a whole host of reasons if electronics all used the same cords, but I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things. There would be bene…

I agree. What happens if companies want to make something better or technology improves? The way the legislation is written, will help consumers in the short-term but could stifle innovation in the long-term. Imagine if the EU had mandated DC power ports or CD-ROM drives two decades ago. It took this long for the EU to pass common standard legislation after talking about it for years. I can't imagine they will be any…

How fast can charging ports evolve even in theory, given that they have to be somewhat backwards compatible to begin with? I think the law can keep up with all these iterations of lightning cables apple invented during its free reign over their port.