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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#331

Post by saurik »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #293
have_faith wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves What proportion of phone consumers have an informed opinion on charging technology? Why would the electronics companies work in a way that benefits everyone/the environment instead of themselves. > I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things We do, we have…

> Whereas cables can be made by anyone competent. Like the myriad businesses already making lightning cables?

That point maybe sounds smart, but doesn't actually make any sense to have added, as I can respond with "yes!!" and it doesn't contradict anything about the argument you are ostensibly trying to undermine. That (importantly) said, the new statement isn't even a true thing to be trying to note anyway in this context: unlike USB-C, which is an industry standard, Apple owns lightning and so if one were to imagine forcing the world to standardize on it it would actually CREATE a monopoly.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#332

Post by [deleted] »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #279

I have no sympathy or love for Apple, but this seems wrong. Technology comes and goes, standards evolve and fall away as new ones arrive. I don't think the law has any place in deciding who uses what connector in this fashion. They can make an e-waste argument all they want, but it's nonsense. All it does is stifle future work on connectors and devices in general.

[deleted]

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#333

Post by kwhitefoot »

clouddrover wrote: post #139
NextHendrix wrote: post #7

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

> On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices Depends on the device. Standards for EV fast charging are a very good thing. North America has two different plugs and protocols for DC fast charging (three if you count CHAdeMO) and it's a mess. The EU has standardized on CCS Type 2 Combo so any brand of CCS charging car can charge on any brand of CCS charging n…

> Closed networks like Tesla's and Rivian's are continuing to be part of the problem.

All new Tesla stations in Europe use CCS and most of the older stations have been retrofitted with CCS connectors in addition to Type 2.

I have an adaptor for my 2017 Model S that allows it to use CCS instead of Type 2 and newer cars can be converted so that CCS connectors can be used without adaptors. All new EVs in Europe already use CCS and Tesla are slowly opening up their network to other brands of car.

So how is Tesla part of the problem?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#334

Post by misnome »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #316
_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

Apple is part of the USB-IF. They also have pushed USB standards to consumers since the iMac. Hell, Apple participates of every single industrial forum they can benefit from. Apple has moved on to USB-C for almost every other product they have. They know Lightning is old and insufficient, even for their iPad Air. The only reason why Apple keeps Lightning around is for phones and some portable accessories, and the rev…

> The only reason why Apple keeps Lightning around is for phones and some portable accessories, and the revenue from those, and their certifications, is not something they are willing to dismiss. Technically speaking, if you want something as simple as a cable, you have to go through Apple and their MFI program.

The other way of viewing this is that by not switching (yet) they haven't created instant e-waste out of every cable and accessory manufactured in the past decade. USB-C didn't exist when they released the lightning cable, and they have clearly been migrating every other product over the past several years.

Seriously, you don't need to invent a conspiracy for every single move Apple makes.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#335

Post by Krkrmfnfmmd »

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

Government mandates on how you can charge your phone won't stifle innovation?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#336

Post by Xelynega »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #293
have_faith wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves What proportion of phone consumers have an informed opinion on charging technology? Why would the electronics companies work in a way that benefits everyone/the environment instead of themselves. > I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things We do, we have…

> Whereas cables can be made by anyone competent. Like the myriad businesses already making lightning cables?

I think it was pretty obvious from context clues that they were talking about USB since it's standardized. If lightning were standardized then other companies would be able to produce the cables. I don't see what your point is.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#337

Post by ericmay »

mschuster91 wrote: post #189
_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

> I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. The standardization is good for a lot of purposes: - cutting down on the number of cables and especially chargers. Seriously, it's amazing to have one single Anker 65W power supply and a single cable on vacation and it can charge everything - tablet, work phone, laptop, power bank, dr…

I think if you're going to accuse Apple of rent seeking here you also pretty much have to accuse anyone who develops their own standard or plugin or similar of rent seeking as well.

When will the EU ban HDMI connections to monitors or force Apple to remove them from MacBooks? Why are dSLR cameras allowed to continue to use micro USB and SD cards when they could just use USB-C so we don't have to buy dongles and adapters?

The argument that Apple only provides one physical port (they also provide Magsafe and allow other wireless charging options) isn't sufficient with respect to your discussion point about market-wide standards. This really looks to me like the EU is just saying "we don't like lightning chargers and since nobody is going to defend it except Apple we'll ban it" while they also let plenty of other "standards" run amok in the market.

FWIW I much prefer USB-C and I want my next iPhone to include it (along with any other devices), but I really struggle with the logic of the decision to force it here.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#338

Post by Avamander »

hackeraccount wrote: post #41
krageon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stifle innovation We have plenty of free market examples of why "innovation" in the connector space almost always spawns lemons and makes everything worse in the meantime.

Do we? By the same token what are examples of where innovation in the connector space helped out? I find laws like this problematic because measuring success or failure is super tricky. How do you know about innovation that hasn't happened? If in 5 years or 10 years we're using USB-C connectors is that great or does it mean there's some better idea that isn't being taken to market? I'm sure there are subject matter e…

> Do we?

Yes, EV charging in the states.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#339

Post by shawnz »

_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

Micro-USB was similarly enforced by law (but adapters were permitted with that regulation, thus allowing Apple to continue using proprietary ports) and that legislation had a clear and obvious positive impact for smartphone users. Don't you recall the days when every single manufacturer had a terrible proprietary connector? I think that enforcement was one of the best examples of a regulatory win in the technology sector in recent times. This is simply an attempt to strengthen that regulation and update it to a modern standard.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#340

Post by reaperducer »

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Android phones were able to quickly move to micro USB because they weren't restricted from doing so by a government regulation.

If there was a government mandate requiring phones to have whatever connector came before micro USB, wouldn't that have prevented the Android phones from changing connectors/choosing the new innovation?

Or was there a location where micro USB was required by law before, and since I don't live there, I wasn't affected by it?

Edit: Strike that last sentence, since I see in other responses that there was, indeed, a location where micro USB was mandated. So my new question is: How does a company change to a new/better connector, if it's required by law to use an old connector?

Edit edit: Looks like other responses show there was no mandate, that's just something that people on HN assume. It was a recommendation, not a law, like it is now.

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