EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#261

Post by Bud » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

dom96 wrote: post #219

_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

> What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phones or transfer files? It would at least save me from carrying one power brick + usb cable. Steam Deck (USB C), Switch (USB C), MacBook Pro (USB C) and iPhone is the only odd one out. This does make a significant difference to what I can take with me on holiday.

That's just you, of course. For hundreds of millions of others, this cuts the other way: over a decade's worth of Lightning accessories and cables and docks are out there.

Which is why the EU is just being dumb, here. They think they are accomplishing some amazing user-friendly enviro-friendly feat, but all they are really doing is making a lot of Lightning gear out there less useful.

And all this to switch to a port that is substantially larger, clunkier, and has no real advantages for iPhone users. Which is why Apple hasn't bothered changing up til now. That, plus Apple actually values what its customers REALLY need and what REALLY ACTUALLY benefits them.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#262

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

danmaz74 wrote: post #225

kypro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less waste after iPhone users all have to throw away their cables and buy new ones, presumably?

Straw-man argument, as the law won't require retroactively changing the port on existing iPhones.

[deleted]

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#263

Post by asasidh » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

Imagine if we had to wait for legislators to get any tech innovation. EU is proving that it is going backwards in everything with each move.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#264

Post by sharemywin » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #108

hyperman1 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason the EU can't upgrade to a new standard, or the USB consortium can't create a backward compatible upgrade. My USB 1.0 keyboard from long ago still works, BTW. Meanwhile, I have a box full of chargers for all kinds of old stuff. Replacing them all with 1 standard is great. And USB is doing just that, not only for cell phones but for all kinds of gadgets. Even if I only require an USB micro and an USB…

> This kind of process is quite normal for technology decisions in europe, BTW. Europe is technologically backwards. They got destroyed by Shenzhen and Silicon Valley because their bureaucrats keep rolling in with this sort of idiocy. They feel a need to bring this backseat design process because their local companies aren't up to the challenge of competing with more-nimble American megacorporations. Their phone comp…

Creating a monopoly, then forcing consumers into a "monopoly tax" on bundled products isn't really innovation it's been around for at least 150 years.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#265

Post by jmull » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

temprose wrote: post #209

bb123 wrote: post #182

What happens when we want to move on from USBC? Do we need a stamp of approval from the EU to do it? No thanks.

The connector can still remain the same while the internal changes. USB-C is just the connector head. Look at USB4 that still uses the USB-C head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 It's just like we have new modern electronics, but they are all able to plug into the same wall sockets. I don't have to remodel my home.

That doesn't really answer the question, though.

Is the USB-C connector going to be the best connector for everything on into the future?

What about mag-safe-like connectors? Wireless? Something you and I can't even think of right now?

Introducing such a connector won't be an engineering challenge so much as a political one. The barriers and cost will be much higher, and quite possibly insurmountable from a practical perspective.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#266

Post by Bud » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

danmaz74 wrote: post #225

kypro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less waste after iPhone users all have to throw away their cables and buy new ones, presumably?

Straw-man argument, as the law won't require retroactively changing the port on existing iPhones.

It's not a straw man, and you clearly have neither learned what a straw man is, nor really looked at this entire issue.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#267

Post by Bud » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

moolcool wrote: post #227

_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

> Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. Personally, I am happy to see that some governments still care about consumer protection.

This doesn't "protect" any consumers from anything.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#268

Post by mschuster91 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

rrwo wrote: post #244

mschuster91 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. The standardization is good for a lot of purposes: - cutting down on the number of cables and especially chargers. Seriously, it's amazing to have one single Anker 65W power supply and a single cable on vacation and it can charge everything - tablet, work phone, laptop, power bank, dr…

> If there is one thing that drives EU legislation ideas, it is the convergence towards open and common, market-wide standards. This reduces the barriers to entry for small players and leads to more innovation as a result. Too many people don't understand that trade agreements are about common standards and accountability. There is a lot of noise about EU regulations made by people who are stuck in 18th century minds…

> Too many people don't understand that trade agreements are about common standards and accountability.

Unfortunately, trade agreements can also end up being abused to enable price dumping. Yes, consumers may enjoy lower prices for goods, but if the cost is domestic industry being completely devastated or human rights being violated at large scale (e.g. children being enslaved in questionably legal mining operations or factories), is it worth it?

Most trade agreements at the time have almost no "equal standards" clause for manufacturing. Stuff like toxic materials (e.g. RoHS) is regulated, but lower work standards - minimum wages, child labor prevention, slavery prevention, fire codes (e.g. the horrible fires that regularly happen in Bangladesh [1]), disposal of waste, CO2 emissions - are not.

The result of that non-regulation is that nations like China, India or Vietnam flood European and US markets with goods that are only cheap (compared to domestic products) because the environment and the workers get exploited. We outsource our dirty industry.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dhaka_garment_factory_fir...

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#269

Post by dahfizz » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #229

dahfizz wrote: post #166

Is this just mandating the physical plug? USB-C has a near infinite number of power delivery and/or data modes. Not to mention thunderbolt, display port, etc which are totally different protocols running on the same physical cable as USB-C. How will this legislation be maintained? Are Europeans going to be stuck to USB-C in 30 years, when the rest of the world has phones that charge wirelessly in 10 seconds and last…

It mandates Type C plug and receptacle and the use of PD. PD 3.0 doesn’t require so many modes, and since there isn’t much choice in chipsets things should work OK as long as the brick provides adequate power. Read the directive for yourself: https://oeil.secure.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/ficheproc... I do wish there were type C USB condoms that passed PD only but they are hard to build. EU previously required US…

Very informative, thanks!

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#270

Post by zdw » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #253

Hamcha wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. It's not, we're glad SOMEONE is forcing them to take this direction, but it's really sad (and potentially damaging) it had to come to this. > As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge…

Transfer speed seems like a non-issue. Wi-Fi 6 is faster than the the internal SSDs read speed. There's no reason to even plug it in for data.

Comparing a shared RF medium to a fairly guaranteed point to point connection is one of those things that in theory works great, but in practice, not so much...