EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#231

Post by riffraff » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

hackeraccount wrote: post #41

krageon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stifle innovation We have plenty of free market examples of why "innovation" in the connector space almost always spawns lemons and makes everything worse in the meantime.

Do we? By the same token what are examples of where innovation in the connector space helped out? I find laws like this problematic because measuring success or failure is super tricky. How do you know about innovation that hasn't happened? If in 5 years or 10 years we're using USB-C connectors is that great or does it mean there's some better idea that isn't being taken to market? I'm sure there are subject matter e…

> By the same token what are examples of where innovation in the connector space helped out?

Power plugs (per country), audio jacks, gas plugs.

Or do you miss the experience of being able to plug your GM car in GM-Approved™ gas stations?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#232

Post by ChrisRR » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

NextHendrix wrote: post #7

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

Does no-one remember how there were like 50 different phone connectors in the early 2000s?

This is why we all (apart from Apple) settled on one standard

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#233

Post by nottorp » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

Well i really like magsafe :)

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#234

Post by vladvasiliu » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

thefz wrote: post #140

pain2022 wrote: post #127

Forced usb-c charger for laptops is concerning. 1) it is additional attack vector, what if maid in my hotel enhanced my charging brick with rubber ducky? 2) mag safe is very convenient

Why? I use the same Baseus 65-W power brick for two phones and two laptops very, very conveniently. And GAN chargers are a third of the size of traditional power bricks. Also, who cares about magsafe? Only Apple laptops have it. I think the move to USB-C is a smart one, it can even reach 100W. Speeds are insane too.

> Also, who cares about magsafe? Only Apple laptops have it.

I wish more laptops had it. My old work HP laptop's USB-C port started having some play, so my monitor wouldn't always connect properly to it. Bump the desk, and the screen would start to flicker. The same monitor / cable works perfectly on other PCs.

My new HP work laptop has the USB-C port so tight, that whenever I need to unplug the charger, it counts as arm day.

And while I, personally, don't do it all the time, it does happen from time to time that I grab my foot in the power cable and drag the laptop with it. I usually realize it quickly enough to not pull it completely off the desk, but it's the kind of fear I never had with my MBP.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#235

Post by c22 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #194

kypro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less waste after iPhone users all have to throw away their cables and buy new ones, presumably?

There is more waste this year, but in 10 years there is less waste.

Assuming USB-C is the last connector humans invent...

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#236

Post by MikusR » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #202

I genuinely believe if Apple thought USB-C was better for the phone they would have implemented it. For one thing, I suspect it is harder to the make the phone as thin, or as waterproof, with the bigger connector. Apple also doesn’t have a monopoly, Android has far larger market share globally than they do. I’m confused what is supposed to happen as new connectors are developed, will the Eu prevent progress on phone…

To make lightning cables/devices you have to pay apple. To make USB-C you don't

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#237

Post by jsmith45 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

pain2022 wrote: post #127

Forced usb-c charger for laptops is concerning. 1) it is additional attack vector, what if maid in my hotel enhanced my charging brick with rubber ducky? 2) mag safe is very convenient

The law does not mandate that USB-C be the only way of charging the device. Simply that it supports it as a charging method (if it supports any wired charging method at all) and that if the device can be charged via cable at voltages greater than 5 volts, or currents greater than 3 A, that it also support USB Power Delivery. Plus there are some labeling requirements, like indicating on the box if the device includes a charging brick or not, indicating minimum and maximum charging wattages supported, etc.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#238

Post by roenxi » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

nolok wrote: post #90

roenxi wrote: post #75

This legislation would have been stupid at any other time in the history of hardware. It will prove to be stupid now as well. There is no reason to think the USB-C is the peak of technical achievement or even consistently a local optimum design choice. The EU has enough problems right now, they don't need to try and help Apple design iPhones.

This is not about making the best technical choice, this is about ecology and limiting waste, which frankly is a very important and urgent issue. They let the industry regulate itself before regulating, Apple didn't play ball, leading to samsung saying either regulation or we do our thing too, so, regulation. I prefer a slightly worse technical solution and a regulation that needs to be updated every few years, than…

> This is not about making the best technical choice...

Thank goodness for the EU parliament, protecting their citizenry from accidentally being exposed to the best technical outcome? Wouldn't want that. If people can't confidently say that the EU is making the best technical choices then the EU shouldn't be legislating technical outcomes. And they can't say that, because this isn't going to be the best choice - the best choice is flexible and context dependent. There are going to be better options than USB-C in some use cases. Possibly many use cases as technology improves. The legislators can't see the future - if they could they'd make better decisions.

I bet this doesn't have any material difference on waste. People will still lose and throw charges out at the same rate they always have. And manufacturers are going to turn out to be less efficient, the market is absolutely cut-throat at dealing with manufacturing processes that generate unnecessary waste. It won't be better than it is now, and they've locked out anyone doing a cheaper and less material-intensive charger than USB-C.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#239

Post by donatj » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

This is supposed to "prevent e-waste", but I can't imagine how. Like I've switched between iOS and Android, and I didn't just throw all my lightning cables out.

Now with them being made actually useless rather than not what I'm using right now, it's going to create so much e-waste when every iPhone user switches cables.

Seems like it's doing the exact opposite of what it's intended.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#240

Post by coffeeblack » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

Very much agree. The port design of lightning is superior, too bad that now a law mandates Apple to sell the inferior solution. But that’s what you get when laws eliminate competition.