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Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

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Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#291

Post by collegeburner »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #209
collegeburner wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it rly change anything? like, take sports. asians have some structural advantages (endomorphism and limb to body ratio) for lifting, west africans at mnay explosive/power sports (fast twitch muscle concentration, arms/legs to body), east africans at long-distance running etc. (lighter structure, efficient muscles over long term), whites at swimming (shoulder structure & torso length). should we stop large swathe…

What's that research going to be used for? Will it become of the basis of policy that says 'only asians are allowed to enter the power lifting club', 'only east africans on the running team', 'only white land owning men are allowed to vote'.

1. we don't know how a piece of research will be used because we don't even know what the outcome will be.

2. rarely is a piece of research only used for 1 thing, and even if someone uses it wrongly, maybe someone else uses it for good purpose or builds on it for an important discovery.

3. the correct answer is to address the person attempting to abuse the data when that person does it not to attempt to suppress that information by preventing the research or limiting how it's done.

4. are you saying we shouldn't do research on e.g. whether certain groups are better at lifting because it could be abused?

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#292

Post by [deleted] »

socialismisok wrote: post #264

The article doesn't quote or link to the policy in question, seems difficult to get a neutral point of view without actually reading the changes to the policy. Edit: the link was in the sixth paragraph, but it's much less damning than the article frames it.

[deleted]

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#293

Post by mlyle »

socialismisok wrote: post #285
happyopossum wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article clearly says this: “In order to present research at the conference, all social psychologists are now required to submit a statement explaining 'whether and how this submission advances the equity, inclusion, and anti-racism goals of SPSP.’”

That's a quote from Haidt, speaking from his memory of the policy. That's not the policy. He's hardly a neutral point of view.

https://spsp.org/events/demonstrating-our-commitment-anti-ra...

"Evaluate the extent to which the submission advances SPSP's goal of promoting equity, inclusion and anti-racism. To do so, please consider the equity statement as well as the submission as a whole. Submissions advancing equity, inclusion, and anti-racist goals may include (but are not limited to):

* Diverse research participants (e.g., understudied or underserved populations)

* Diverse research methods (e.g., methodology that promotes equity or engages underserved communities or scholars).

* Diverse members of the research team (e.g., those from underrepresented sociodemographic backgrounds, from an array of career stages, from outside the United States, or with professional affiliations that are not typical at SPSP such as predominately undergraduate serving institutions, minority-serving institutions, or outside academia)

* Presentation content (e.g., prejudice and discrimination, critical theories, cross-cultural research). "

Note none of these things are required but will be considered.

The text from the paper submission document has a large blank labelled:

"Please explain whether and how this submission advances the equity, inclusion, and anti-racism goals of SPSP. This may include, but is not limited to: The research participants in the sample; the methods used in the research; the members of the research team(s) involved in the work (e.g., background, diversity, career stage, affiliation type); the content of the presentation (e.g., critical theories, prejudice, equity, cross-cultural research). "

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#294

Post by aendruk »

akkartik wrote: post #280
mensetmanusman wrote: post #189

It’s an insightful critique that a mandated statement does force many academics to lie. This is by grasping at straws trying to find a relationship between their decades-long research thrust and a shiny new requirement popular among the administrative class that is now in charge.

Where have you encountered this critique? I didn't find it in the article.

Paragraph five.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#295

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

trention wrote: post #257
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have question, because some of these would result in 'woke activists' on the right as well as the left. > protest/lobby for legislation changes restricting freedom of speech in any way There are conservative politicians, florida in particular, that have passed legislation banning CRT and gender studies. Is this not a restriction of free speech? Toby Price was fired for reading a popular children's book to children.…

CRT and gender studies should not be part of the high school curriculum in public schools and should not receive any sort of government funding in universities because at best they are pseudoscience. Private institutions not receiving government funding should teach whatever they like, including white nationalism. Discrimination based on race should either be allowed in all circumstances or disallowed in all circumst…

so "restricting freedom of speech in any way" really means it can be restricted in some cases. This was your definition, not mine.

Again interesting that you consider discrimination based on race in all cases as an acceptable position equal to no discrimination based on race.

The unequal enforcement bit would mean that white neighborhoods should be given the same level of enforcement as minority ones. Is that really what you want? Where literally everyone is treated by the police exactly how they treat minorities?

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#296

Post by 0x445442 »

socialismisok wrote: post #264

The article doesn't quote or link to the policy in question, seems difficult to get a neutral point of view without actually reading the changes to the policy. Edit: the link was in the sixth paragraph, but it's much less damning than the article frames it.

The link was in the article… https://spsp.org/events/demonstrating-our-commitment-anti-ra...

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#297

Post by varnaud »

tomp wrote: post #187
xg15 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Equity” is actually about lowering the standards and destroying meritocracy. The "meritocracy" that includes your rich parents into your "merit".

No, the correct answer to this is "provide free/subsidised schooling to exceptional people who cannot otherwise afford it". By the way, this is the meritocratic way because we're looking for best people , which includes identifying unrealized talent and then nurturing it. Instead, the SJW/ woke way is "reduce standards until everybody passes", literally https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-leftists-try-to-canc...…

>exceptional people Why would you only provide free/subsidized schooling to exceptional people. Why not all people? If you truly believe in meritocracy, wouldn't you want everyone to have a fair opportunity to prove themselves?

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#298

Post by socialismisok »

tomohawk wrote: post #180
yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

"The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." - Kendi Kendi is a key promoter of "anti-racism", which is described in the above quote. Many institutions are signing on to this agenda, which requires people to view everything through this ideological (social j…

Let's apply this to a material, concrete condition that exists in our world.

We can all hopefully agree that:

A) Redlining existed

B) Redlining was explicitly racist

C) Redlining has impacts that are still felt today

Let's use an antiracist lens to talk about it and compare to a modern, liberal "just don't be racist" lens.

The standard liberal response is, "well, redlining is over, and we know now not to do that. So, problem solved, right?"

The antiracist lens might be, "there are still people suffering from the impact of Redlining. The people who benefited from it should be helping those who suffered from it." In this case, wealthy white folks explicitly benefited from Redlining. Maaaaaybe we should tap on the shoulders of wealthy white folks and say, "hey, there was a major injustice done very recently, we want to fix it, and since you benefitted from it, we're asking you to pay a slightly larger share in fixing it."

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#299

Post by trention »

workingon wrote: post #282

Academic societies can have whatever ideologies they wish. Go present at a conference that doesn't have an ideology you don't have. That's true freedom. This is the same thing as Trump complaining about being banned from twitter. It's anti-capitalism and anti-freedom.

Can an academic society in the USA today have an ideology explicitly presented as "the advancement and preservation of the white race"? No? Then your whole argument falls apart.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#300

Post by _8j50 »

brailsafe wrote: post #101
_8j50 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No that's bullshit. If you ask me to say "I hate hitler and bin laden" for no reason I would have a similar reaction as well. How can people put up with this filth? It repulses and disgusts me so much when kindness, compassion and even justice are absorbed by this bureaucratic ideological machine where people say and do things out if insincerity, just as lip service to fall in line politically. How do people feel com…

I tend to agree, but historically what you're describing is a classic case of being an employee at a company.

I work at a multi national now and I see upper management do this but I or anyone else I work with never had to do this, also when I worked at a national (only in US and canada) company that employed mostly older folk and has a "mom and pop shop" kind of culture I never had to see this at all.

Only companies that have a lot of HR,legal and management people that were indoctrinated with this stuff in college seem to have this cultural component.

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