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Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

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Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#21

Post by kieckerjan »

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there.

Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the top (Chekhov, say) because life is short and you might be dead tomorrow and then you missed out on the best. With an antagonistic reader like this , I am not sure that is the best choice though.

Any tips would be welcome!

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#23

Post by acchow »

frankohn wrote: post #15

Pretty agree with the post but it is funny he discovered that "truth" so late in his life. I generally consider mathematics and physics as being the higher achievements of human knowledge and it is normal to "worship" them as the most important field of study so much that some people dedicate their entire life to them with the same devotion of true monks. It is surprising that the author didn't include Physics in the…

> Mathematics alone is sort of "sterile" when is not used within physics knowledge.

Surely you can’t believe this anymore with the discovery of computer science, AI, type theory , etc?

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#24

Post by cehrlich »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

Great question. I always recommend Anna Karenina as the one book everyone should read, but maybe it's actually a terrible thing to recommend to someone who Doesn't Like Reading.

I don't have an answer for you, but you got me thinking :)

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#25

Post by zigman1 »

As someone coming from social sciences, I agree with author’s assessment that scientific method used in academia isn’t suitable in explaining human nature or behaviour. However, a lot of at least sociologists are aware of that. I would suggest to author to read Wallerstein’s Herritage of Sociology [1]. Wallerstein thinks that social sciences had to imitate the method of natural sciences in order to survive (meaning to get the necessary funding).

I’m out of time right now, but if I remember I’ll write more about it in the afternoon. Wallerstein and Braudel are one of the few authors that influenced me the most during my studies and changed the way I perceive both Sociology as a subject and society around me. Couldn’t recommend them more.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#26

Post by Antoniocl »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

It's likely highly dependent on the individual. There's a lot of literature is beautiful, immersive, and speaks to deep universal truths that are harder to capture in other mediums. To steelman his argument, even given that all of this is true, it's a harder sell that engaging with the works is useful to him, on an individual level.

For me, Infinite Jest helped me be more empathetic, which was an area I lacked a lot at the time, to the point that reading it was just clearly useful to me.

But other than that? It's hard to say. I derive a lot of pleasure from fiction, and find the experiences I get from them to be highly meaningful and to sometimes stay with me for years, not unlike memories of times with good friends. Whether or not that's of value to you as an individual just depends on your values.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#27

Post by cvoss »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

Is this person highly cynical about human relationships and emotions and desires?

If so, that makes your job a whole lot harder, but you may be able to challenge that by linking a moving work of fiction with an actual closely held relationship or desire in this person's life. But do not expect to be able to just hand him a book and watch it happen. Speaking from personal experience, I frequently require someone to discuss fiction with before it will "hit home", and I'm not even antagonistic to fiction at all. I'm just bad at it unless I can talk it through with somebody who can be my guide.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#29

Post by hprotagonist »

john61 wrote: post #28

One can learn not only from books, but from all forms of great art and minds. For example: “Music Is a Higher Revelation Than All Wisdom and Philosophy”, L.v. Beethoven

“It’s impossible for me to say one word about all that music has meant to me in my life. How, then, can I hope to be understood?”

wittgenstein

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#30

Post by frankohn »

acchow wrote: post #23
frankohn wrote: post #15

Pretty agree with the post but it is funny he discovered that "truth" so late in his life. I generally consider mathematics and physics as being the higher achievements of human knowledge and it is normal to "worship" them as the most important field of study so much that some people dedicate their entire life to them with the same devotion of true monks. It is surprising that the author didn't include Physics in the…

> Mathematics alone is sort of "sterile" when is not used within physics knowledge. Surely you can’t believe this anymore with the discovery of computer science, AI, type theory , etc?

> Surely you can’t believe this anymore with the discovery of computer science, AI, type theory , etc?

Well, I guess in some way we observe that now mathematics can be coupled, in addition to physics, to some new fields like AI, computer science and cryptography.

In any case I still think that mathematics becomes more interesting and worthy to study when it is applied into another field like the one we mentioned. In some sense its applications give more sense and more depth to mathematics itself.

Some people don't want to learn mathematics because they don't see how it is useful and they don't see its beauty neither. Yet sometime it happens that, later, they discover some applications where mathematics is needed and at this moment the understand how useful and deep mathematics is, just because they see its applications and they understand its meaning.

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