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Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

reuters.com

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Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#311

Post by hef19898 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #265
ch4s3 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that Germany chose further reliance on Russian gas as a response to the Iraq war, they didn’t just complain. Making that choice looks pretty naïve in hindsight. I’m not here to justify the Iraq war, and no good faith reading of my post would suggest that.

Germany imported Russian gas because it was cheap. It had nothing to do with the Iraq War. If you look at a graph of German natural gas imports from Russia by year, you will not see any major changes after 2003. Imports from Russia (back then, the USSR) reached 50% of total imports in the 1980s, and flatlined after that.[0] 0. https://rujec.org/article/55478/zoom/fig/11/

Don't confuse the meme of Germany's "dependence" on Russian gas being "the root" of yhe current "evil inflation" with facts. Not to mention that regardless of all other sanctions, following a war Russia started, the EU, and the West in general, excluded energy. This left a door open for Russia, it also allowed to mitigate the energy markets problems we currently see. Heck, both sides did their best to prevent damage to the gas pipelines in Ukraine. It was Russia, more precisely Putin, that closed that door and caused the clusterfuck on energy markets.

I say energy markets, because global availability of gas doesn't seem to be an issue, prices are. Gas shortages have nothing to do with crazy electricity prices lately. And even then there were no shortages or blackouts anywhere in Europe so far. Energy prices did hurt industry and drove inlfatuon, sure, but this is a global issue not sole caused by the war in Ukraine, COVID, Chinese lockdows and the chip shortage all played a role in that. As did the constant injection of money into the global economy since 2008.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#312

Post by Ambolia »

ch4s3 wrote: post #201
cinntaile wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LNG is more expensive than Russian gas so it makes or made economic sense to do that.

Does it make sense now that the pipeline is shut down and Russia is in conflict indirectly with Western Europe?

LNG is expensive because you have to outbid the global market to get it. It would have been expensive and damaged the German industry 5 years ago as well. Maybe it would have been better to do it at their pace, but it's not like sacrificing cheap energy and natural resources is an easy step to take.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#313

Post by retinaros »

adventured wrote: post #234
medo-bear wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU made its bed (or more likely, imported it) and now has to sleep in it we should have taken the US more seriously when they said to buy US oil. not wise to piss the US off

I have thoroughly enjoyed the acrobatics required for Europeans that try to blame all of this on the US because they need a scapegoat so as to avoid personal responsibility.

u mean like when ukrained was trained by us operative, its leadership selected by us operative and using us weapons . the only country that used nuclear are the usa. i wouldnt trust them not to push for a nuclear attack again

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#314

Post by hef19898 »

ch4s3 wrote: post #206
hnhg wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add to the list: indirectly creating ISIS, enabling an enormous amounts of ethnic cleaning/genocide of minorities, allowing a takeover of the country by Iran and related militias, and hosing down the place with depleted uranium: https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2019/09/21/new-study-do...

That has nothing to do with my original comment. As a response to the Iraq war, pivoting to Russia as an energy supplier now looks foolish.

There was no turn to Russia, the USSR was a reliable gas supplier since the 60s and all the way through the Cold War...

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#315

Post by avgcorrection »

gambiting wrote: post #306
avgcorrection wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you claim that Putin isn’t rational then you can claim that he is liable to do anything and everything since his actions don’t make sense. Hence the obvious question: why would one theory be more likely than any other? You yourself haven’t given any rational reasons for your original theory.

Trying to scare EU/NATO to back off or a country of 50 million people will go without gas this winter isn't a rational theory? Seems like a very clear thing to threaten in this situation. >>Hence the obvious question: why would one theory be more likely than any other? Well, I mean, some theories are obviously more likely than others - it's more likely that Russia blew it up than that Japan blew it up, right?

No, it isn’t a rational theory. Because the only elaboration you have given is that you are a worried Polish person.

Putin has already given quite brazen warnings like “remember that we have nukes”. And yet he would covertly sabotage Russia’s own pipeline? What kind of a limp-wristed warning is that?

> Well, I mean, some theories are obviously more likely than others - it's more likely that Russia blew it up than that Japan blew it up, right?

Yes, a country on the other side of the planet probably had nothing to do with this. Well said! Probably not Fiji either.

Any more brilliant counters?

Alternatively there are countries that are closer to the Baltic Sea which are both not Russia and Japan… as well as countries that have geopolitical interests in that general area.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#316

Post by 5560675260 »

thaufeki wrote: post #176
nosianu wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Question: could Russian disinformation have played a role in germanys policy here? As a German, no, that was quite voluntary. People like me completely agreed. I only woke up on 24 February. I'm from East Germany, speak some Russian, and have been to Russia a few times, and to Ukraine too, for months actually. I did not care about the Krim annexation either. I think because it was peaceful, and because I did not se…

>Maybe they want Putin to invest more and more and grind Russia down slowly? Losing too quickly would leave Russia with too much left? Of course, the cost of such a strategy would be borne by the Ukrainians, who pay in blood. I think this has been the conventional wisdom for a while. One thing I ask people who are vociferous in their support of Ukraine (and our paying for that support) is, how is this going to end? R…

The result will not be just "lost territory" it's hundred thousands people left in Russian bondage. And that will not be the end of it - Putin will be back for more in a year or two. There can be no peace as long as his regime is in power and as long as russians cling to a fantasy of living in an empire. I don't know how realistic is to bleed Russia, but fighting it now is only viable option, there is nothing else.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#317

Post by medo-bear »

adventured wrote: post #234
medo-bear wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU made its bed (or more likely, imported it) and now has to sleep in it we should have taken the US more seriously when they said to buy US oil. not wise to piss the US off

I have thoroughly enjoyed the acrobatics required for Europeans that try to blame all of this on the US because they need a scapegoat so as to avoid personal responsibility.

i have thoroughly enjoyed americans enjoying this and telling everyone i told you so

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#318

Post by retinaros »

landemva wrote: post #226
aiilns wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> President Donald Trump repeated a highly misleading claim on Friday that Germany will soon depend on Russia for 50 percent to 70 percent of its energy needs. Then the article spends significant time pointing out that Russian natural gas plays only a small part in Germany's total demands in energy, citing numbers like 20% & 13% and thus Trump's claim is am exaggeration. And then goes on to say: > To be sure, Russia…

He has been shown to have been correct on this. I think he was also correct to ask Europe to fund NATO on their own. As USA taxpayer, I don't want to pay for it. Europeans know where they live and their history.

we dont want nato it was pushed on us. no one ever voted for being a tool in the us armada. you know the usa that would definitly go crazy if russia or china had weapons in mexico but see no problem of doing the same. one day u will understand that american people live well because their number one investment is their army and nato

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#319

Post by avgcorrection »

hef19898 wrote: post #300
avgcorrection wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN doesn’t think in memes more than before. It’s just you who percieve commenters to be NPCs because the same things keep getting upvoted. > Maybe EU wanted to have Russia as a reliable petrostate as an alternative to the USA so they can do their thing without USA? Considering the EU’s actions since the war started we can safely discard this theory.

Yeah, because the war Ukraine was no valid reason to revise whatever plan you had before...

Hmm? Could you be more coy and less direct in your replies, please?

Did Russia transform from a cosmopolitan, Western European-loving, tolerant nation with fantastic relations to the EU overnight into a savage brute in Feb 2022? Or was it always at least a little bit backwards, clearly not democratic, sphere of influence-envious, and had already arguably been at indirect war with Ukraine since 2014?

To claim that Germany/EU wanted closer relations with the Russian Empire contra the American Empire is clearly asinine if you look at the actions of Germany/EU.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#320

Post by hef19898 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #217
f1shy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, the green party is one of the most hard opponents to nuclear. Of course, they suggest the alternative Wind+Solar, not gas.

In fact, in the 1970s, the German Green Party proposed replacing nuclear with more coal power plants. They were anti-nuclear first, the whole CO2 thing only ever started to get traction with them when they won their first Atomausstieg and needed a new topic to terrorise children into next-generation voters with.

What was a bigger issue in 70s, 80s and 90s? Nuclear power, Chernobyl just happened as did the Pershing deployment, the Ozone layer or climate change? To answer the question, climate cjange only recently got the traction it deserves. Assuming you believe global warming is an actual problem, and not just something evil Greens and environmentalists are scaring our youth with.
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