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Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

reuters.com

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Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#151

Post by mrtksn »

xienze wrote: post #131
mrtksn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This place started to think in memes I feel. Every issue comes with the automated arguments, the same ones every time. If the topic is energy someone must write the "they shouldn't have closed those Nuclear power plants, silly environmentalist". Anyway, France is full blown nuclear state and they are having energy issues too, because as it turns out nuclear power plants require long regular maintenance periods. Maybe…

> Maybe there's no simple answer for energy issues and countries don't simply build or close down power plants over single issue? Well, two things. One, pretty sure the push to shut down Germany’s nuclear plants was a response to a single issue, Fukushima. Two, one simple answer to this particular situation is to assess your energy independence before sanctioning the country you rely on for natural gas. Germany is ge…

Nuclear power plant construction is flat since Chernobyl and seen slight decline after Fukushima: https://dropover.cloud/ec077b#c8239728-7d32-49ab-98c7-865fb0...

Safety concerns are definitely an issue that can nudge you to prefer alternative sources but this doesn't make it single issue. It's simply one of the things you consider.

As you can see, despite NPP construction stalling in late 1980s, world energy consumption continued to increase: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption

This simply means, considering the risks and cost of all energy sources, nuclear power fell unfavourably. Doesn't mean single issue.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#152

Post by tomp »

bpfrh wrote: post #128
yrgulation wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worse than you think. Germany blocked or was against a large number of alternative pipelines and was preparing to actively block nuclear at an eu level.

Which pipelines are you talking about? "actively block at an eu level" Do you mean not labeling investment in nuclear as green? Because that is very fair, if I invest my money in "green energy" I don't expect to fund nuclear.

So nuclear (zero CO2 emissions) isn’t “green” but gas (CO2 + methane emissions) is?!

This is the reality of institutional stupidity at the highest EU political levels.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#153

Post by landemva »

xienze wrote: post #131
mrtksn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This place started to think in memes I feel. Every issue comes with the automated arguments, the same ones every time. If the topic is energy someone must write the "they shouldn't have closed those Nuclear power plants, silly environmentalist". Anyway, France is full blown nuclear state and they are having energy issues too, because as it turns out nuclear power plants require long regular maintenance periods. Maybe…

> Maybe there's no simple answer for energy issues and countries don't simply build or close down power plants over single issue? Well, two things. One, pretty sure the push to shut down Germany’s nuclear plants was a response to a single issue, Fukushima. Two, one simple answer to this particular situation is to assess your energy independence before sanctioning the country you rely on for natural gas. Germany is ge…

> assess your energy independence before sanctioning the country you rely on for natural gas.

Trump blurted that to the Germans around 2019. The press brushed it off as "highly misleading".

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/trump-is-exaggerating-german...

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#154

Post by Ruthalas »

fsh wrote: post #33
neonsunset wrote: post #10

Imagine using easily expendable and non-renewable resources, subjecting the very processes our civilization is sustained by to a great risk of failure while having an almost inexhaustible source of energy that was invented more than 50 years ago. Surely that would be a madness and no reasonable organization would do this, right?

According to IAEA data, there is considerably more minable coal than uranium on earth (by extractible energy). Current nuclear reactors are not scalable to global energy requirements.

Is that "more" by mass, or energy content?

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#155

Post by munificent »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #141
adambyrtek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that Gerhard Schröder could get a job at Gazprom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Relation...

> In 2022, it was reported that Schroeder was paid nearly $1 million per year by Russian energy companies. Who knew sabotaging a continent’s energy policy was so affordable.

Fossil fuel executives sure as hell do.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#156

Post by tomp »

nosianu wrote: post #137
barbariangrunge wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: could Russian disinformation have played a role in germanys policy here? Perhaps they were pushing anti nuclear viewpoints for a decade leading up to this? To be clear, I have zero evidence either way, I’m just curious how large an effect these campaigns have had on public policy across the world

> Question: could Russian disinformation have played a role in germanys policy here? As a German, no, that was quite voluntary. People like me completely agreed. I only woke up on 24 February. I'm from East Germany, speak some Russian, and have been to Russia a few times, and to Ukraine too, for months actually. I did not care about the Krim annexation either. I think because it was peaceful, and because I did not se…

Ok so you explained your love affair with Russia. Thank you for that, very insightful and courageous.

But why the hate of nuclear? Was there a lot of propaganda in the media how dangerous it is? I really don’t understand it. It gives clean energy independence almost for free!

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#157

Post by mrtksn »

scifibestfi wrote: post #149
mrtksn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This place started to think in memes I feel. Every issue comes with the automated arguments, the same ones every time. If the topic is energy someone must write the "they shouldn't have closed those Nuclear power plants, silly environmentalist". Anyway, France is full blown nuclear state and they are having energy issues too, because as it turns out nuclear power plants require long regular maintenance periods. Maybe…

The people are fed up with dangerously incompetent leadership, who literally laughed when warned to not be dependent on Russia for energy. It's not a meaningless culture war. The loss of energy means lower standard of living at best and mass death and famine at worst.

The solution is not obvious, it's obvious only to zealots. It's kind of obvious that the solution is in PHV and wind energy but you can fight it to death with people who would claim that it's obvious that the solution is Nuclear energy.

This is not a good discussion, this is fanatics fighting. Anytime someone suggest simple solution to a big problem %99.9 of the time they don't actually have a simple and obvious solution.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#158

Post by Gud »

dijit wrote: post #58
tapland wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden we haven’t separated their power supply from anything else, so rolling blackouts will kill them as well. And the blackouts are probably coming sooner than a fix can be in place

I actually had a problem with Swedens approach a few years ago. The Swedish power grid is a single grid and the idea is: all eggs in one basket, but pay close attention to the basket. Unfortunately when it comes to datacenter designations, two independent power feeds is required for tier 2 and above. Excluding all datacenters in Sweden. At least some portions of Canada are also excluded because they have rules that s…

What do you mean by independent power feeds?

If you mean fed by two different substations it’s not a problem in Sweden at all. Most(every station I’ve ever worked in) medium/high voltage substations in Sweden are fed by at least two separate lines. Same as any other country I’ve built substations.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#159

Post by landemva »

nosianu wrote: post #137
barbariangrunge wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: could Russian disinformation have played a role in germanys policy here? Perhaps they were pushing anti nuclear viewpoints for a decade leading up to this? To be clear, I have zero evidence either way, I’m just curious how large an effect these campaigns have had on public policy across the world

> Question: could Russian disinformation have played a role in germanys policy here? As a German, no, that was quite voluntary. People like me completely agreed. I only woke up on 24 February. I'm from East Germany, speak some Russian, and have been to Russia a few times, and to Ukraine too, for months actually. I did not care about the Krim annexation either. I think because it was peaceful, and because I did not se…

Thanks for the perspective from east side of the wall.

It was not voted on directly. Like removal of Deutschmark under Köhl, it was done by those governing without direct vote. The people didn't react, so you get what you tolerate.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#160

Post by mminer237 »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #103
scifibestfi wrote: post #61

"Russia's decision to halt gas supplies via Europe's key supply route in the wake of the Ukraine conflict has increased the chances of power shortages." Europe's decision, Germany especially, to be reliant on Russia for energy when they could have not shut down nuclear plants and built more.

There is a penn and teller episode where they argued that globalization was creating world peace. Basically, when everyone’s economies are so entangled, they said, nobody would want to go to war because of how expensive it would be. Their model, I think, only works for democracies. When a dictator controls a country, and their quality of life remains unchanged and revolves mostly around delusions of grandeur (like an…

It's notable that in 1909, people thought the world was so interconnected that there could never be another general war in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion
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