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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

nytimes.com

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Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#211

Post by dang »

saiya-jin wrote: post #166
sofixa wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians are really intent on setting the clock back. Fighting in the Donbass, trenches, poorly equipped human waves, genocide through attacks on civilians and kidnapping of children. It's like Putin and co are stuck in WW2 (at best).

Quoted post unavailable.

This sort of ethnic/nationalistic slur is totally unacceptable on HN and if you post anything like this again we will ban you. I'm shocked that any longstanding HN user would stoop to this degraded and shameful level. Yes, there's a war going on; nonetheless this line is not so hard to draw and you crossed it terribly. No more of this, please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: from your recent comments it also looks like you've been using HN primarily for political/nationalistic battle. That's not what this site is for and we ban accounts that do it, so please stop.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#212

Post by rasz »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #43
boomboomsubban wrote: post #37

This doesn't seem drastically different than what was openly happening to Native Americans in the US until the passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978. By some estimates, as many as 3/4ths of Native American children were taken from their families for adoption or foster care. And that's assuming the law stopped the practice, some states still see many Native American children shipped to non-Native communities…

Likewise, the Stolen Generation in Australia.

russia recently stole hundreds of babies from occupied territories and send them deep into their own country.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#213

Post by wyager »

dang wrote: post #117
wyager wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

We've asked you many times before to stop taking HN threads further into flamewar. This was a doozy—snarkily veering straight into religious Nazi flamewar, which is close to pure internet hell. Please don't do this on HN. It's nasty, repetitive, and off topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Why aren't you saying something like this to the comment I responded to? They posted inflammatory nonsense, and I responded with a factual refutation.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#214

Post by Eleison23 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #201
Eleison23 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, well let's ask a poor child born to an unmarried mother about his experience. I was born in a Catholic hospital, where abortion was out of the question. My father refused to marry my mother, so she felt she didn't have a "choice", and wept many tears as she "voluntarily" signed the papers to relinquish custody to the State, placing me for adoption. I was adopted by Catholic parents who ensured I received the Sac…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#215

Post by dang »

wyager wrote: post #213
dang wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've asked you many times before to stop taking HN threads further into flamewar. This was a doozy—snarkily veering straight into religious Nazi flamewar, which is close to pure internet hell. Please don't do this on HN. It's nasty, repetitive, and off topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Why aren't you saying something like this to the comment I responded to? They posted inflammatory nonsense, and I responded with a factual refutation.

Two reasons: (1) The GP comment seemed less flamebaity to me because it acknowledged its bias. Yours, by contrast, went straight into battle mode. (2) Your account has a history of posting flamewar comments here and us asking you to stop (including recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32580711).

I've posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33017883 now though.

The word "factual" is basically a no-op in these things since mostly what flamewar commenters do is bash the opposing side with their carefully selected "facts". No doubt some are genuine facts, some not, and some are facts-with-spin—but if the spirit of an argument is to smite enemies, then it's against the site guidelines regardless of how facty it is. (As I've pointed out before, there are infinitely many facts, and they don't select themselves—humans do that.)

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

What we want here is curious conversation, where commenters seek to learn from each other, not tell each other how wrong and bad they are. Curiosity is an open state, where flamewar and battle are (very) closed ones.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#216

Post by dang »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #38
wyager wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't think "not as bad as Hitler" is a bar one should be aiming for. I was specifically referring to the Catholic Church's penchant for treating unmarried mothers and poor children like trash. Like in Ireland: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/9-000-children-died-irish... And in Britain and Australia: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/03/catholic-chu... And in Canada: https://www.france24.com/en/americ…

Please don't perpetuate religious flamewars, or any flamewars, on HN. They make us all tired and angry, and are not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#217

Post by aa-jv »

_HMCB_ wrote: post #161
aa-jv wrote: post #128

White Stolen Generation (Australian variant), checking in. My mother was physically, emotionally and pyschologically tortured by her own government for the simple fact of having had me, out of wedlock. I was taken as a baby, to be relocated to another family - a "proper, white one", that met the standards of the government at the time. Mum fought and screamed and kicked down the doors, and got a lawyer. And, a little…

I can’t imagine anyone doing this to a mother/family. It sickens me. The desperation your mother must have felt is unbearable to think about. I’m glad she fought for you. Thanks for sharing your story.

Thanks for your kind words. It was a trauman she did not deserve yet she bore it her entire life.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#218

Post by aa-jv »

aredox wrote: post #207
kderbyma wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common propaganda tactic as well. so it really does require evidence....it seems a conflict isnt a conflict until the incubators get in the news.....

It isn't..The Russians themselves admit to it openly.

Where?

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#219

Post by candiodari »

mrguyorama wrote: post #202
candiodari wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should probably limit it to psychology. The whole point of psychology is social control. Making society into what someone wants it to be instead of what it needs to be (from the perspectives of individuals who are trying to survive/do well, whatever that means to them ). Changing individuals while doing only things to the individual, not touching the problems their behaviour is trying to solve. Pointing o…

If you think that the elan school and where it got its teachings were genuinely psychiatric best practice at the time those projects were created, then you know nothing of the field of psychology.

I think people should be judged by what they DO, not what ideal picture they put forward of themselves.

And as mentioned, the majority of kids were sent to elan school ... by youth services. Not by parents.

Was it "psychiatric best practice"? Probably not. Was it "psychiatry IN PRACTICE"? Yes, absolutely, for thousands of kids. It's far from the only such institution, or even the worst.

By the way, the very large majority of people who "help" kids aren't psychiatrists, a bigger part are social workers, and an even bigger portion don't have any training at all. That too defines what they do, what happens in practice. This sector doesn't follow any method or rules, they just randomly try things, whatever the individual randomly assigned feels appropriate.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#220

Post by trasz »

dang wrote: post #209
trasz wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're trying to optimize for curiosity here. No, you aren't. That's the point: you pretend this is the case, but you only allow certain kinds of curiosity - ones that are politically safe.

Perhaps I'm just missing it, but I haven't sensed any curiosity in your comments about religion. They have seemed to me to come from a pre-existing agenda.

I'm afraid explaining this to you again is just a waste of time.
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