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Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

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Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#971

Post by m000 »

baq wrote: post #97
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the cause or the motivation behind this, the gas pipeline is no longer functional as an instrument of blackmail. It is useless to Russia now.

yes. there is no blackmail possible and there is no flow of molecules. everyone is worse off except influencial people in russia who do not control gazprom and perhaps the US, but their LNG infrastructure was at max capacity anyway.

> but their LNG infrastructure was at max capacity anyway

Yes, they will definitely hate doubling their profits while selling the same amount of LNG. Money isn't everything. /s

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#972

Post by [deleted] »

toss1 wrote: post #949
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and hope that this scares the EU into stopping supporting Ukraine This absolutely doesn’t make sense. If the pipeline is gone, EU does not have any incentive to settle with Russia. Like, “whatever”, no pipe, we send tanks to Ukraine because you have nothing to offer to us anymore.

You are massively missing the facts that: 1) there are multiple OTHER pipelines from Russia to the EU, and NatGas can be shipped by sea (as is now being done from the US); NS1 was not the only route, and NS2 was barely online, and already Germany was heavily dependent on Russian supplies. So it would still be easy to make a settlement with Russia to get more NatGas and oil if the EU wanted. 2) Russia has a LONG histo…

[deleted]

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#973

Post by rad_gruchalski »

toss1 wrote: post #953
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and hope that this scares the EU into stopping supporting Ukraine This absolutely doesn’t make sense. If the pipeline is gone, EU does not have any incentive to settle with Russia. Like, “whatever”, no pipe, we send tanks to Ukraine because you have nothing to offer to us anymore.

another key hint: The gas is apparently still flowing out of the pipes at pressure - this can happen only if Russia is still pumping, for which the only purpose would be to spend money to create an environmental disaster - another distraction/disruption.

No, the gas is flowing out of the pipeline because the pipeline wasn't empty. Apparently, it will take until Sunday for the pipeline to empty.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#974

Post by joshgree88888 »

tpm wrote: post #530
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes zero sense to me. What does Russia get by destroying their own pipeline? If they wanted to shutoff gas, thats just a turn of a valve. Russia looses massive leverage by no longer being able to deliver gas, even if they wanted to. Prior to this, if the public got cold enough, they could tell their government "forget Ukraine, we need gas. Go agree to get it or we will vote you out ASAP". Now.... There's no po…

If they just turn a valve, they break contract. If they pipeline blows up, its force majeure. They can still pump gas using the other pipelines (yamal etc). But they will shut down all of them eventually. Why? Because they are past the point of no return.

What is it with all these comments that think contractual obligations have any weight in a geopolitical dispute like this?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#975

Post by eternalban »

themgt wrote: post #12

The resident hawk at National Review is already doing a touchdown dance. "Who Will Rid Me of This Meddlesome Pipeline?" Three leaks in two days? Wow, that’s a shame! Sounds like the pipeline’s falling apart and just won’t be a reliable way to get natural gas from Russia to Germany. I guess hopes of Germany and Russia eventually putting aside their differences over the invasion of Ukraine, and reestablishing long-term…

I thought the Thomas Becket reference was brilliant and spot on. I wonder if it is an extra-governmental group like Gladio, taking matters into their own hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/11/14/c...

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#976

Post by bartimus »

kstenerud wrote: post #90

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Poland. The Polish prime minister immediately called "sabotage" and fingered Russia, while everyone else is still saying "it could be sabotage but we need to investigate first". Russia wants the taps capable of being turned ON at their discretion, not permanently broken. This hurts their bargaining position in a big way because they've just lost their biggest source of lev…

Then also the Uzgorod pipe is still providing gas to Europe. It runs through Ukraine.

Must be nice for Ukraine to be able to station troops and equipment near Russia's financial arteries.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#978

Post by int_19h »

segah wrote: post #966
int_19h wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas already stopped flowing from Russia to Europe. The question now is if and when it'll be restarted. And yes, of course, for the peace faction to make use of it, they'd need to carry out a coup to remove Putin first, so that they are in control. That's precisely why it all adds up.

Nord Stream 1 was stopped. Gas is still flowing from Russia. Anyways, the argument is actually more likely the opposite. Opposition was planning a sabotage. In anticipation, to downplay the impact, Putin claimed to punish Europe by stopping Nord Stream1. It is a reactionary action.

NS1 and NS2 are both stopped, and those were the pipelines that were targeted.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#979

Post by dang »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #65
tomrod wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear Russia Thanks for confirming so clearly that you are an untrustworthy and manipulative partner. Best, -The Rest of Europe.

Quoted post unavailable.

Would you please stop posting flamebait comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot lately. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for, so we have to ban such accounts.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#980

Post by mensetmanusman »

shswkna wrote: post #843
kibwen wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is tinfoil-haberdashery. No, Biden did not authorize a clandestine attack on Russian infrastructure just to boost the US auto industry, nor did he subtly broadcast his nefarious intent months ago as part of some game to throw red meat to the conspiratorialists, Q-style. The US would have nothing to gain and everything to lose by engaging in such an action, and has absolutely no impetus to since it already curren…

I beg to differ. To at least consider that the sabotage is in US interest, is sound logic. Of course there are many factors at play and a lot we don’t know. The arguments in your post carry a hint of denial in them. Read other posts that outline the benefits to the US position after the sabotage, and consider them without bias. Not saying its the only explanation- but the case is worth considering.

It was also in America’s favor for Putin to invade Ukraine, because it strengthened the western alliance.

That doesn’t mean Putin is an agent for America.

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