Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#381

Post by Volundr » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #352

Brian_K_White wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like none of my or your business. Neither of us has any legitimate interest in them other than do they rob anyone? Do they burn down houses? Do they perform at some job and pay taxes? If they spend all their money on prostitutes, it's no more your business than if they spend it all on video games or cars or rare stamps.

I don't agree. A society where prostitution is welcomed and celebrated is very different than one where it's not, and it's entirely reasonable for me to say I'd like to live in the second kind of society. You mention cars, so I'd point to muffler mandates as a good analogy - an un-muffled car won't rob anyone or burn down your house, but because they're loud and annoying they've been prohibited.

Tobacco is tolerated, not celebrated. There is a large gap between someone's vices being no one's business and actively celebrating them.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#382

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

implements wrote: post #152

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with the denigrating of sex work. It's a pervasive and ancient part of human society, but it should not be studied, because? We study bookmaking and banking and families and art, but not this because, it's naughty? it's taboo? it makes some uncomfortable? All that is a clear sign to me, that we need more such scholars.

It should be denigrated - it’s an abuse of another human being that’s often considered a form of modern slavery. Have a read of this from an actual day-to-day UK prostitute: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4638679-reasons-n... NB: Being against sex work isn’t being against sex workers. Edit: You know, I was going to moan about the downvotes - but I think I’ll leave it as when ultimately [flagged] it’ll be…

As it is now, with no worker protections, its bleak. But with some study and regulation it can be otherwise.

Hell, factory workers were 'modern slavery' and we made that better.

Nothing new here about 'sex workers', just about unprotected workers in a taboo industry. We can fix that, if we stop denigrating and start talking.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#383

Post by forgetfreeman » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

throwaway4aday wrote: post #307

forgetfreeman wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is easily the most wildly inaccurate categorization of conservative positions on sex work I have ever, and am ever likely to, encounter. Conservatives (in the US anyway) view sex work as grossly amoral and sex workers as sub-human and a threat to the community. Collectively they don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about sex worker safety, they just want it banned outright through any means necessary.

Opinions vary. Certainly many people, not just conservatives would think that sex work is immoral. I don't believe I've ever met someone that believes sex workers are subhuman, that reeks of hyperbole. The perception of sex work as a threat to community is probably wider spread still, in its current form it certainly isn't conducive to safety for anyone involved. Overall, you're simply setting up a strawman that poor…

It reeks of hyperbole you say? I invite you to attend services at the Southern Baptist church of your choosing and then try bringing up the topic of sex workers after services. Depending on where you attempt this you might make it to your car under your own power.

Your claim that I'm advancing a strawman argument here strongly suggests to me that you may not have a solid grasp on conservative attitudes on this topic. I assure you Alabama (for example) exists, and it's residents absolutely have opinions about things.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#384

Post by mrguyorama » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #268

socialismisok wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the far left in the States it's considered work, and something that should be well regulated and safe. The center left/centrist (Democrats) position is more split. Some folks think it's a bodily autonomy issue and others think it's degrading. Feminist opinion is likewise split. But most feminists I know tend to fall in the, "if it's consensual, it should be protected and regulated work. You shouldn't fear going to…

Where "it's just work" often breaks down is when you get to the question "if someone can take a sex work job but chooses not do, can they get unemployment".

That would apply to any form of self employment. I don't get unemployement for not starting a youtube channel either.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#385

Post by mrguyorama » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

aliqot wrote: post #217

giantg2 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But given the practicalities it tends to be highly intertwined with a few exceptions.

> As for the pair-bonding thing, it reads like it came out of a bible pamphlet. I just want you to know your reply with the bible pamphlet thing was really stupid. To address you directly: It's scientifically proven, check out Oxytocin and see about the pair-bonding facilitation it does. I'm not a dummy, but today you spoke to me like one. You won't always get someone to re-engage you, and that won't always be becaus…

That Oxytocin is produced through MANY interactions that are not sex.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#386

Post by michaelt » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

zmgsabst wrote: post #323

UncleMeat wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it is this. Instead, I think it is that conservatives think that sex work is fundamentally immoral and that therefore it cannot be accepted by society, regardless of any harm or benefit created by this policy. It isn't "hey we believe that sex workers fundamentally cannot be protected from abuse" like something like child labor but is instead "sex work is moral degeneracy and must be stopped."

You’re not following their logic through: “Moral degeneracy” is a problem (in their view) because of the associated harms — which we’ve learned over time and encoded into our traditions. That things they call “moral degeneracy” fundamentally are harmful to a healthy society and to the people involved. That is, they think sex work is harmful to the people who participate and those nearby (eg, children of sex workers).…

Well, the modern conservative movement is an alliance of several groups.

Some conservatives get from sex work to prohibition via moral degeneracy - perhaps they'll want strong moral fibre from their politicians and oppose all forms of corruption.

Other conservatives reason via religion - perhaps they'll also oppose teaching evolution, and support 'in god we trust' signs in classrooms.

Still other conservatives don't really care either way about prostitution, but have strong opinions on guns or taxes and kinda tolerate the rest of the conservative platform.

And there are even conservatives who think the state has no business regulating what goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors, and the smaller and less intrusive a state is the better; and they're frankly embarrassed their fellow conservatives are inviting the state into the bedroom.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#387

Post by a-user-you-like » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

Volundr wrote: post #377

a-user-you-like wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re skipping the moral problem. The road to hell is paved with utilitarians.

Your religion is not my religion. The law should not prevent me from doing things just because you think it'll send me to hell, anymore than the law should force you to practice my religion. If you don't believe in freedom of religion, that's your choice, but it sort of one of the founding principles of the USA.

The founding of the USA had all 13 colonies with state churches. Sure, let’s return to that. Then all the states would outlaw this immoral practice.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#388

Post by aliqot » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #371

aliqot wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

giantg2 is a swell person, I wrongly maligned them in this comment thinking the quote they posted was their own words in a flippant context. I wholeheartedly apologize to giantg2. However for the record, other guy above can beat it.

You do realize that's a quote, right? Like look at the parent of that comment.

Ah, you are correct, my mistake. I owe you one. I have edited my comment with an apology, out of respect and as penance for the slander.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#389

Post by robotnikman » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

lostgame wrote: post #338

rtkwe wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been useful early to pay for hosting. OF may not exist today if not for the great de-porning of Tumblr that happened about a year after they started as a business.

The Tumblr de-porning was the single most SMH business moment I may have heard of since Yahoo’s previous worst business move ever of not buying Google. I mean - my God … Yahoo may very well be the single dumbest major tech company in history. Just…blunder after blunder after shitty decision. Watching its history is almost the definition of seeing a slow motion train wreck. It’s almost impressive. With regards to Tumb…

The only reason I can think of is some executive was so morally opposed to it that they value getting rid of the NSFW stuff on Tumblr over money. Twitter had no qualms taking in the manly Tumblr users who went over there instead.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#390

Post by a-user-you-like » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

feet wrote: post #380

powerslacker wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant amount of people aren't looking at this as an issue of metrics, convenience, economics, or anything of the sort. That's a utilitarian approach. The vast majority of people opposed to legal & regulated prostitution are approaching it from a religious and moral perspective. The Christians that the article rags on believe that the Bible is truth that has been revealed to man by God and that it encourages t…

Yet the US has freedom of religion, it seems there is a large conflict there

The Constitution says there shall be no church of the United States, but that was at a time when all the states had state churches.

And adultery was a capital crime.

Outlawing whoring and the founding principles of the country are not at odds.