Live data from Hacker News

When the push button was new, people were freaked

daily.jstor.org

51–60 of 189 posts

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#51

> Today, you’d probably have to schedule an electrician to fix what some children back then knew how to make: electric bells, buttons, and buzzers. "Some" is doing a ton of work in this sentence describing 19th century children.

Well, I'm of 20th C. origin—not 19th—and the first electrical things I played with as a young kid were electric bells, buzzers, batteries, flashlight globes and reels of bell wire—lots and lots of it. (Experimenting with such items wasn't an unfashionable activity when I was a kid.)

Bell wire, which usually came in the form of two single-stranded copper wires twisted loosely together and insulated in red and white PVC plastic, was installed under the house, in ceilings, in wall cavities and elsewhere by yours truly to enable us perform all sorts of electrical tasks—door bells, for mother to signal us to come to dinner, etc.

Isn't that standard kids' stuff anymore? The thought of an electrician being called to fix these Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson-type installations would have been preposterous. If No.-1 son wasn't about say to change a battery then my parents would do it themselves.

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's way more children today with electronics/electricity skills than back in the day...

I'm pretty sure there were way more children back then who had practical skills, now everyone is pushed into "college prep" and discouraged from having practical skills, as they are associated with the lower class workers. The people who keep us all alive are viewed as less worthy... that's our problem in a nutshell.

Is that true? I feel like the drumbeat I constantly have heard for the last 10 years is that the trades pay really well and are easier to get into. Most of the electricians I know are definitely not "lower class". That said, they're harder jobs physically. They're not particularly good for your body a lot of the time.

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#53
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's way more children today with electronics/electricity skills than back in the day...

I'm pretty sure there were way more children back then who had practical skills, now everyone is pushed into "college prep" and discouraged from having practical skills, as they are associated with the lower class workers. The people who keep us all alive are viewed as less worthy... that's our problem in a nutshell.

Yeah, this.

Two days ago we returned home from a short trip and when we turned on the tap for the first time the water pressure seemed unusually high for 5-10 seconds before returning to normal. I would have thought nothing of it except that about fifteen years ago I had experienced the same phenomenon after installing a water pressure booster pump in our house and so I learned the hard way about the need for thermal expansion tanks in modern domestic plumbing [1] and so I knew right away that our tank had failed and needed to be replaced. It's a pretty trivial DIY project, but only if you do it before your pipes burst. I suspect most people have never even heard of a thermal expansion tank.

[1] https://homeinspectioninsider.com/thermal-expansion-tanks-in...

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#54

> Today, you’d probably have to schedule an electrician to fix what some children back then knew how to make: electric bells, buttons, and buzzers. "Some" is doing a ton of work in this sentence describing 19th century children.

Well, I'm of 20th C. origin—not 19th—and the first electrical things I played with as a young kid were electric bells, buzzers, batteries, flashlight globes and reels of bell wire—lots and lots of it. (Experimenting with such items wasn't an unfashionable activity when I was a kid.) Bell wire, which usually came in the form of two single-stranded copper wires twisted loosely together and insulated in red and white PV…

> Well, I'm of 20th C. origin—not 19th

This already is a massive difference. Large majority of children in the 19th century did not have any access to electricity, let alone knowing how to fashion an electric bell.

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#55
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure there were way more children back then who had practical skills, now everyone is pushed into "college prep" and discouraged from having practical skills, as they are associated with the lower class workers. The people who keep us all alive are viewed as less worthy... that's our problem in a nutshell.

Yeah, this. Two days ago we returned home from a short trip and when we turned on the tap for the first time the water pressure seemed unusually high for 5-10 seconds before returning to normal. I would have thought nothing of it except that about fifteen years ago I had experienced the same phenomenon after installing a water pressure booster pump in our house and so I learned the hard way about the need for thermal…

> I suspect most people have never even heard of a thermal expansion tank.

I suspect that if you did surveys every year going back to the 19th century, in every single one of them the majority of people would have never heard of a thermal expansion tank.

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this. Two days ago we returned home from a short trip and when we turned on the tap for the first time the water pressure seemed unusually high for 5-10 seconds before returning to normal. I would have thought nothing of it except that about fifteen years ago I had experienced the same phenomenon after installing a water pressure booster pump in our house and so I learned the hard way about the need for thermal…

> I suspect most people have never even heard of a thermal expansion tank. I suspect that if you did surveys every year going back to the 19th century, in every single one of them the majority of people would have never heard of a thermal expansion tank.

That's because they didn't exist back then.

But I'll bet most people could tell you why they had separate hot and cold water taps. (These things are related BTW.)

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#58
It’s worth noting that there are always the fears of losing touch with the details of stuff that some along with various advances. The same thing was the case when I was in junior high with calculators, “how will you add and multiply if your batteries run out?” but the fact of the matter is, not having to be able to make your own push button switch freed people to advance to other topics. Similarly, in mathematics education, when I was in high school, there were classes entitled College Algebra and College Trigonometry¹ which had the implicit message that these were materials traditionally taught in college² and not in the third year of high school. On the other hand, things like calculating square roots by hand are no longer part of the curriculum, although they may still be taught on occasion by the rare teacher who has those skills as an enrichment topic to fill some class time or as part of the math club’s after-school explorations.

We may be filled with nostalgia for our own learning and think that it’s the only way to learn, but as time goes on, some skills just become less important.

1. The backs of the textbooks included printed tables for log (both base 10 and ln), sin, cos, tan, cot, sec and csc, with the latter six tables to three thanks to the fact that sinθ=cos(θ-π/2).³

2. The disjunction between practice and theory has led to this sequence being renamed precalculus in most (if not all) high schools now.

3. The skills to make those tables in the first place are yet another thing that we no longer dedicate long classroom hours to, although Charles Babbage would have thought that being unable to verify the accuracy of your tables was a sign of intellectual weakness.

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#59
Not much more magical than delivering a chicken to the butcher, and getting back pieces of meat. Or delivering a typed manuscript to your publisher, and getting a bound book. Or any trade essentially.

Having a machine do it - that was new. But not the part about abdicating responsibility for function.

Re: When the push button was new, people were freaked

#60
From Plato's dialogue Phaedrus 14, 274c-275b:

Socrates: I heard, then, that at Naucratis, in Egypt, was one of the ancient gods of that country, the one whose sacred bird is called the ibis, and the name of the god himself was Theuth. He it was who invented numbers and arithmetic and geometry and astronomy, also draughts and dice, and, most important of all, letters.

Now the king of all Egypt at that time was the god Thamus, who lived in the great city of the upper region, which the Greeks call the Egyptian Thebes, and they call the god himself Ammon. To him came Theuth to show his inventions, saying that they ought to be imparted to the other Egyptians. But Thamus asked what use there was in each, and as Theuth enumerated their uses, expressed praise or blame, according as he approved or disapproved.

"The story goes that Thamus said many things to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts, which it would take too long to repeat; but when they came to the letters, "This invention, O king," said Theuth, "will make the Egyptians wiser and will improve their memories; for it is an elixir of memory and wisdom that I have discovered." But Thamus replied, "Most ingenious Theuth, one man has the ability to beget arts, but the ability to judge of their usefulness or harmfulness to their users belongs to another; and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess.

"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."

Post reply on HN