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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

nytimes.com

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Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#191

Post by xani_ »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26
motohagiography wrote: post #24

Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…

I was going to say the Catholic Church often seems to be at the center of these regimes, but I guess we all see things through our own lens.

Well, it was the biggest there at the time. Not much option for smaller religions to enforce their atrocities.

Even in democratical societies leaders tend to want to please the church so their brainwashes masses vote for them.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#192

Post by [deleted] »

saiya-jin wrote: post #166
sofixa wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians are really intent on setting the clock back. Fighting in the Donbass, trenches, poorly equipped human waves, genocide through attacks on civilians and kidnapping of children. It's like Putin and co are stuck in WW2 (at best).

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#193

Post by dang »

trasz wrote: post #165
dang wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've asked you more than once not to use HN for religious flamewar. If you keep doing it (and you've done it repeatedly in this thread already), we are going to have to ban you. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32279647 https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is not flamewar. It’s not even a controversial statement. The word you are looking for is “political correctness”. I have no problem with plural “you” prohibiting easily verifiable, but politically incorrect facts, but let’s not pretend it’s something else - have some guts and explicitly write it down in site rules instead of (repeatedly) pushing bullshit like this.

I don't care about the individual comment, I care about the pattern.

Given that your account has had such a clear pattern of posting religious flamewar comments* that we've had to warn you multiple times in the past, and given that you were resuming that pattern several times in the current thread, it seems natural to let you know that we need you to stop posting like this and if you don't we will ban you.

Re "facts": people repeat their favorite "facts" all the time to bludgeon the enemy side in whatever internet battle they're prosecuting, so the but-it's-a-fact defense doesn't hold much water. It's a red herring, which is why it's the most beloved response of trolls. There are infinitely many facts, and the choice of which ones to make explicit is always done by a person with a point of view. If you or anyone wants more explanation about this, I've posted about it many times: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

If you want to have repetitive internet wars on grand rhetorical subjects, please do it someplace else. We're trying to optimize for curiosity here.

* or whatever you want to call denunciatory generic rhetoric about religion that leads other users to respond in kind and produce dumbed-down, nasty, repetitive threads

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#194

Post by dang »

yazzku wrote: post #188
dang wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious flamewar is not allowed on HN. Please don't post like this, regardless of how badly other people have behaved or how strongly you feel about it. Other kinds of flamewar aren't allowed either, but religious flamewar is particularly bad and particularly avoidable. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: comments like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33003645 are particularly not ok. Please…

What I stated is factually correct, unlike the BS from the troll who created an account just to reply to this thread (see the comments under his account). Facts are not allowed on HN when they bother other people? You're also falsely accusing me of religious flamewar. This has nothing to do with religion; my snarky remark on Jesus not approving was just to show that the Catholic Church bears no moral authority, reall…

It always feels like the other person started it and did worse. From my perspective your comment was just as flamey as the others.

On HN, we want curious conversation. Denunciatory arguments on inflammatory topics are the easiest thing for internet forums to degenerate into, and when they do, curious conversation is quickly destroyed. That's why we have to expend a lot of energy trying to moderate this tendency.

The moderation point doesn't change based on how factually correct your comments here. People bring facts into these flamewars all the time—carefully selected to bolster their side, of course. The other side has its arsenal of facts as well.

From a moderation point of view, it doesn't much matter if the flaming arrows people shoot at each other happen to be made out of fact-wood or some other material. What we want is for users to use HN as intended, and that is something else entirely.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#195

Post by dang »

goldorak wrote: post #148
dang wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. It's hellish, tedious, and off topic here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry, I fail to see how denouncing a coup and a dictatorship is off-topic in a post about stealing children under a dictatorship. Maybe I'm wrong but I think defending democracy and denouncing a fascist regime should not be seen as generic ideological but common sense.

We're trying to avoid denunciatory rhetoric on inflammatory topics, regardless of how right or obvious your views are or you feel they are. It's a kind of reductio to a hellish internet end state, and there's nothing more destructive to curious conversation, which is what HN threads are supposed to be for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#196

Post by dang »

anktor wrote: post #122
dang wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. It's hellish, tedious, and off topic here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I've seen this reply several times under OP so I assume it's either automated or a mod, I'm not familiar enough with the site. If a mod, why is a post answer which is basically bait, allowed to stay up, but people are being asked to refrain from answering it? The topic is clearly ideological. A post defends a dictatorship with poor arguments and accused, among many other attrocities, of stealing thousands of babies.…

I did my best to moderate all sides in this thread when I saw people breaking the site guidelines, regardless of what point they were making. If I neglected to post a scolding in reply to a comment that deserved it, that would be either because (a) I already replied to that commenter elsewhere in the thread; or (b) I just missed it.

Of course the topic has a lot of ideological overlap, but that makes it more important not to descend into flamewar. That's why the site guidelines say: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html? I think if you take in the intended spirit of the site, it should be clearer why we moderate it the way we do—and also that we're not taking any side in any of these flamewars.

Btw, the site guidelines also contain this: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." — that is the answer to the question in your second paragraph. This is our version of the old internet adage "Please don't feed the trolls."

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#197

Post by dang »

trhway wrote: post #119
dang wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. We've had to ask you this many times. Attacking another user for their ethnicity is going to get you banned here, regardless of who you have a problem with. I realize that people feel strongly in a war but you can't do that here, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're serious? The guy brings in the trolling from Russian propaganda forums- you should see the trash they spread there - the Russian here isn't ethnicity, it is the country Russia which has many ethnicities - and you let him just do it. I'm not attacking him for ethnicity - i'm pointing that it is pretty obvious that he is a Russian troll. Do you really think that his comment isn't in a gross violation of all the…

If you're talking about https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33004414, that comment was heavily downvoted and has now been flagkilled. You broke the site guidelines badly in how you reacted to it, which is why I'm asking you to (1) review the site guidelines, and (2) follow them in the future.

Your comments in this thread went full bore into denunciatory rhetoric on an inflammatory topic. They were also egregiously offtopic. That's pure flamewar, and if you keep doing that we're going to have to ban you. This point doesn't change depending on how right you are or feel you are, or how justified your cause is.

Here are the previous warnings I referred to:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31869359 (June 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200545 (Oct 2019)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19618790 (April 2019)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18803468 (Jan 2019)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15279258 (Sept 2017)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10328194 (Oct 2015)

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#198

Post by dang »

greedo wrote: post #174
pessimizer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the article says. The article is about adopting orphaned children from the breakaway republics.

Quoted post unavailable.

Please edit out swipes and name-calling from your comments here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#199

Post by dqpb »

stevenwoo wrote: post #40
elliekelly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also happened fairly recently with US adoptions of Cambodian babies: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kbyeg/cambodian-adoption-fr...

There's also the case of US immigration services separating children from their parents 2016-2020 and not tracking where those children were sent in conjunction with their parents' identity.

I still think about this on a regular basis. Particularly the toddler who died under the "care" of Border Control. Absolutely sick.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#200

Post by mrguyorama »

Thorrez wrote: post #85
trasz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An encyclic is just a marketing material. What matters is what they actually did. The Vatican was gifted to Church by… fascists.

>In Weimar Germany, the Catholic Church vehemently warned ordinary parishioners about the dangers of extremist parties. Is that doing something?

It's no different than the current day catholic church saying "oh gays are people too we should treat them nicely" and then remind you that the bible says sinners spend eternity in hellfire and sort of wink at the American evangelicals that spend their time screaming that the bible says gay people are an abomination.
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