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Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

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Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#81

Post by gambiting »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #76
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

I agree with you, it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this (at least not the mainstream Russian state, I have my doubts about their internal unity). What's more, I find the timing of this incident odd, having happened just after the victory in the Italian elections of the far-right, who is somewhat ambivalent towards Putin. The only conceivable motivation I can come up with for Russia would…

>> it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this

Of course it does - Poland is entirely relying on the Norway to Poland gas pipeline, if that goes then a country of 50 million people has no gas this winter. Blowing up the Nordstream was(to me) a clear signal that EU needs to be careful or the Norwegian pipelines are going up next.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#82

Post by Zardoz84 »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

You forgot to mention EEUU... Think about to WHO we are buying now gas.

PD: Also, we can try to not tarnish more the anarchists. Probably they would be the last guys to try to blow it .

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#83

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

BurningPenguin wrote: post #48
nopenopenopeno wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joe Biden threatened to do it live on air: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKn8TM47BTc

> RussiaZ for victory Yeah, that seems like a real trustworthy channel... Btw. they were talking about heavy sanctions back in the time.

This is a clip of Biden speaking, what does it matter what channel it's posted on?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#84

Post by rendall »

gambiting wrote: post #81
Mordisquitos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this (at least not the mainstream Russian state, I have my doubts about their internal unity). What's more, I find the timing of this incident odd, having happened just after the victory in the Italian elections of the far-right, who is somewhat ambivalent towards Putin. The only conceivable motivation I can come up with for Russia would…

>> it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this Of course it does - Poland is entirely relying on the Norway to Poland gas pipeline, if that goes then a country of 50 million people has no gas this winter. Blowing up the Nordstream was(to me) a clear signal that EU needs to be careful or the Norwegian pipelines are going up next.

Why not then blow up the Norway to Poland gas pipeline itself?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#85

Post by rendall »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #73
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

Why Russia? Biden and sone State Dept official both said NS2 would stop if Russia invaded. Seems like a promise kept

My question was Why not any of the other myriad other groups who have opportunity and even more direct motivation?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#86

Post by weberer »

Huh1337 wrote: post #65
fddr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but most likely the fact that the natural gas is being used instead of oil or coal leads to a large net reduction in carbon emissions

What about the fact that the natural gas is being used instead of nuclear power?

Blame the extremely hypocritical green parties for that.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#87

Post by 5560675260 »

rendall wrote: post #84
gambiting wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this Of course it does - Poland is entirely relying on the Norway to Poland gas pipeline, if that goes then a country of 50 million people has no gas this winter. Blowing up the Nordstream was(to me) a clear signal that EU needs to be careful or the Norwegian pipelines are going up next.

Why not then blow up the Norway to Poland gas pipeline itself?

That would be seen as an act of war and would escalate things quicker than Russia thinks it can handle.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#88

Post by rendall »

gambiting wrote: post #81
Mordisquitos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this (at least not the mainstream Russian state, I have my doubts about their internal unity). What's more, I find the timing of this incident odd, having happened just after the victory in the Italian elections of the far-right, who is somewhat ambivalent towards Putin. The only conceivable motivation I can come up with for Russia would…

>> it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this Of course it does - Poland is entirely relying on the Norway to Poland gas pipeline, if that goes then a country of 50 million people has no gas this winter. Blowing up the Nordstream was(to me) a clear signal that EU needs to be careful or the Norwegian pipelines are going up next.

Do you really feel like "send a clear signal that EU needs to be careful or the Norwegian pipelines are going to be next" is a more plausible motivation above "permanently end European reliance on Russian energy"?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#89

Post by rendall »

5560675260 wrote: post #87
rendall wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not then blow up the Norway to Poland gas pipeline itself?

That would be seen as an act of war and would escalate things quicker than Russia thinks it can handle.

You think that blowing up the Nord Stream pipelines would not be seen as an act of war?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#90

Post by tuatoru »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

> Resist going for "Clearly, Russia!". Just spitballing here, but why not a German opposition group? Norway? Poland? Any activist group opposed to EU dependence on Russia?

Why treat "Russia" as a unitary actor? By doing this, Putin takes away a major reason for deposing him - whoever takes over is not going to get those sweet, sweet Euro millions in return for stopping the invasion and withdrawing. It's a game-theoretic commitment device, on this view.

Likewise it's a mistake to treat Poland as unitary. It's likely that at least some people in Poland would like the West to commit to defending Ukraine, because if Ukraine falls, Poland suddenly borders the Russian empire. There is history between Poland and Russia.

And there are a bunch of Ukrainian refugees in Poland...they would also like the West to continue their support for Ukraine.

> Shit, why not Danish anarchists, for that matter?

Or Danish wind turbine manufacturers who want to force commitment to renewables?

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