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Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

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Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#71

Post by DocTomoe »

Huh1337 wrote: post #65
fddr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but most likely the fact that the natural gas is being used instead of oil or coal leads to a large net reduction in carbon emissions

What about the fact that the natural gas is being used instead of nuclear power?

People tend to forget that while gas is being used for energy production, it is also being used as basis of chemical processes, e.g. for ammonia production, which then starts a whole chain of products (most prominently: carbonic acid, fertilizer, cooling, removing CO2 from industrial exhaust, ...)

We can't just replace natural gas with nuclear power, even if we did, we'd still be in deep trouble.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#72

Post by koonsolo »

adrianN wrote: post #64
koonsolo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or wait 10 years to build more nuclear Maybe not closing nuclear would have been enough.

No, or we wouldn't have needed gas a couple of years ago.

A couple of years ago???

Around 2010 they had 17 reactors, then they shut down 8. Last years they only had 6 running, now only 3.

Yeah, they needed gas alright, because nuclear seems so much worse...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#73

Post by readthenotes1 »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

Why Russia? Biden and sone State Dept official both said NS2 would stop if Russia invaded. Seems like a promise kept

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#74

Post by DocTomoe »

number6 wrote: post #49
adrianN wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NS2 was started ten years ago and cost around nine billion euros. Nine billion buys a lot of insulation, heat pumps, and wind turbines over ten years. Wheras NS2 was only ever needed so that Russia can turn off gas for Ukraine without turning it off for Germany.

Uncanny how the war escalated around the time NS2 was ready...

What is uncanny is how the US started taking notice of NS2 around 2020, with Congress threatening sanctions against Germany [1], and Biden ominously talking about how there's going to be "no more Nord Stream 2" [2].

[1] https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-germany-displeased-at-us... [2] https://iuvmpress.news/biden-ready-to-stop-nord-stream-2-if-...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#75

Post by nixass »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #73
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

Why Russia? Biden and sone State Dept official both said NS2 would stop if Russia invaded. Seems like a promise kept

No post body was provided.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#76

Post by Mordisquitos »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

I agree with you, it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this (at least not the mainstream Russian state, I have my doubts about their internal unity). What's more, I find the timing of this incident odd, having happened just after the victory in the Italian elections of the far-right, who is somewhat ambivalent towards Putin.

The only conceivable motivation I can come up with for Russia would be a 4D-chess false-flag. If they were to already assume that there's no way the EU will give in to the gas blackmail this winter, blowing up the pipeline and sowing doubt on the US or Ukraine itself being behind it could be a way to divide support for Ukraine. However, it would be an extremely risky and expensive bet with no guarantee of it working.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#77

Post by herewulf »

DocTomoe wrote: post #71
Huh1337 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the fact that the natural gas is being used instead of nuclear power?

People tend to forget that while gas is being used for energy production, it is also being used as basis of chemical processes, e.g. for ammonia production, which then starts a whole chain of products (most prominently: carbonic acid, fertilizer, cooling, removing CO2 from industrial exhaust, ...) We can't just replace natural gas with nuclear power, even if we did, we'd still be in deep trouble.

What percentage is that versus what is just burned? We need oil for plastics too but the vast majority of it is burned.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#78

Post by CaptainZapp »

c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #13

I worked in oil and gas in a previous life. The absolute wildest people I've ever met are saturation divers - divers who live in pressurized chambers on ships for months at a time to avoid having to decompress after dives. Fantastic money but you need a few screws loose to handle the work.

A must read, if you're interested in the subject:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-a-saturation-d...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#79

Post by nmarkerz »

teraflop wrote: post #8

I found this section from another page on the same site amusing: > Nord Stream developed a high environmently-conscious logistic concept which guarantees that transport vessels have not to travel more than 100 nautical miles (185 kilometers). [...] This concept of short trips and environmentally friendly transport saves roughly 200,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide when compared against other options and the use of existi…

Ok, that is about the maintenance logistics. Now let's compare what emissions could be saved by using the pipelines instead of importing U.S. and Russian LNG (via China!) on polluting ships.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#80

Post by Grollicus »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #73
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

Why Russia? Biden and sone State Dept official both said NS2 would stop if Russia invaded. Seems like a promise kept

Because they promised NS2 would stop (which it did, before the war broke out the project was dead) and then they blew up NS1?!
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