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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

nytimes.com

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Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#51

Post by lifeisstillgood »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #48

What an incredible thing to do - to steal someone's child and raise it and love it as your own. Why didn't they adopt orphans? Were there none?

The article touches on this - the practise began with orphans (from the regiemes executions!) and illegitimate children from poor single mothers handed over to the church. But as social mores changed in the sixties, single parenting was not such a social stigma and so the "supply" dried up. At this point the church had people "alongside" management of hospitals etc, so the institutions were compromised, and the next more awful step could go forward.

It's interesting to compare the institutions being compromised by putting idealogues in hierarchical power with Hitler and the SA / SS. It seems that is the "playbook".

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#52

Post by boomboomsubban »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #45
boomboomsubban wrote: post #37

This doesn't seem drastically different than what was openly happening to Native Americans in the US until the passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978. By some estimates, as many as 3/4ths of Native American children were taken from their families for adoption or foster care. And that's assuming the law stopped the practice, some states still see many Native American children shipped to non-Native communities…

“Openly” is probably going to throw some people off here, because it’s knowable history but not widely broadcasted or widely known. I think (and hope) your intent is to draw the parallel so similar programs targeting natives in the US (and Canada, I’ll add, they seldom diverge very far) can be viewed in the same light. I’m not adding much nuance besides noting that your wording could be misinterpreted as a dismissive…

I was saying these programs don't need to be run by fascist dictators who forged documents far away in the distant past. The democratic US either did or does the same kind of thing without that kind of deception.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#54

Post by krajzeg »

motohagiography wrote: post #24

Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…

Radical ideology craves credibility. I would suppose that for that reason, the regimes interested in treating a subset of people as inferior would look for experts who could testify to that fact. These end up being doctors and psychiatrists, since they are considered authorities on the human body and mind respectively.

As for doctors themselves, I would think they are exactly like any other group of people: when a radical regime establishes itself, some will embrace it, some will be bullied into compliance, and others will be violently opposed. You can find examples of all of those in any historical regime.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#55

Post by cm2187 »

adolph wrote: post #9
yazzku wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

At some point someone has to expect something Inquisition-like in Spain, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty...

The french revolution killed in a couple of years a high multiple of what the Spanish inquisition killed in over a century. Of all the crimes, massacres and genocides of the last centuries, it probably doesn't even register in the top 200.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#56

Post by [deleted] »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #45
boomboomsubban wrote: post #37

This doesn't seem drastically different than what was openly happening to Native Americans in the US until the passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978. By some estimates, as many as 3/4ths of Native American children were taken from their families for adoption or foster care. And that's assuming the law stopped the practice, some states still see many Native American children shipped to non-Native communities…

“Openly” is probably going to throw some people off here, because it’s knowable history but not widely broadcasted or widely known. I think (and hope) your intent is to draw the parallel so similar programs targeting natives in the US (and Canada, I’ll add, they seldom diverge very far) can be viewed in the same light. I’m not adding much nuance besides noting that your wording could be misinterpreted as a dismissive…

[deleted]

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#57

Post by qikInNdOutReply »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #48

What an incredible thing to do - to steal someone's child and raise it and love it as your own. Why didn't they adopt orphans? Were there none?

Most orphans are damaged goods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorde...

It seems understandable, to not pour yourselve into 15 years of trouble for nothing.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#59

Post by Guthur »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #37

This doesn't seem drastically different than what was openly happening to Native Americans in the US until the passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978. By some estimates, as many as 3/4ths of Native American children were taken from their families for adoption or foster care. And that's assuming the law stopped the practice, some states still see many Native American children shipped to non-Native communities…

And similarly in Australia.

The more appropriate description is taken by STATE. These and more issues come from state bureaucracies irrespective of any other trappings.

Otherwise decent people will do terrible things when given a bureaucratic goal, just to achieve said goal, and then will say they were only doing their job or following orders.

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