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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
21–30 of 220 posts
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#22This has been a big topic in Spain in the last 10 years. It's great to see that most of the cases are being opened to the public now. Note: I'm from Spain While it's true that this happened under the fascist rule of Franco, I'm not sure that the fascists had nothing to do with it, so I think the article title is a bit misleading. In my view, this issue was mainly caused by two things: 1. Imbalance of power, where pow…
directly from the article: "But one of the most lasting abuses of the era was borne by children. In the late 1930s and 1940s, Antonio Vallejo-Nájera, a leading psychiatrist in the regime who was trained in Nazi Germany, promoted the idea of a Marxist “red gene” carried by the children of Franco’s left-wing opponents. The gene, he said, might be suppressed by removing children from their mothers and placing them with…
> Antonio Vallejo-Nájera was explicit about the political/eugenic character of these transfers
There's nothing "eugenic" about a policy with a premise of "these children have bad genes, but we can overcome that by getting the right people to raise them". That is the opposite of eugenics.
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
At some point someone has to expect something Inquisition-like in Spain, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty...
Result of 500 year old Elizabethan propaganda. Actual historical records show that Inquisition persecution was SO lightweight and tolerant that even ordinary criminals tried to get themselves reclassified as religious offenders to be able to get off lightly.
Revisionist history? The Jews who converted to avoid expulsion and (some of whom) were practicing their religion in secret would like a word.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2430792/jewis...
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#24Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even recently, doctors even consult on enhanced interrogation techniques, and seem to favour some pretty heavy handed public health policy. As a profession, is there something fundamentally wrong with many of them that we tolerate for their expertise?
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#25This has been a big topic in Spain in the last 10 years. It's great to see that most of the cases are being opened to the public now. Note: I'm from Spain While it's true that this happened under the fascist rule of Franco, I'm not sure that the fascists had nothing to do with it, so I think the article title is a bit misleading. In my view, this issue was mainly caused by two things: 1. Imbalance of power, where pow…
This is flamebait.
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#26Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…
I was going to say the Catholic Church often seems to be at the center of these regimes, but I guess we all see things through our own lens.
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#27Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…
Doctors used to be viewed with (justified) suspicion. That suspicion is mostly still justified, but doctors are riding the coattails of several significant medical inventions in the last 100 years, especially antibiotics. This gives them a lot of credibility (justified or not), and the political consequences of this are not ideal. Hopefully this will eventually return to equilibrium and people will stop treating doctors like they're a couple stddev smarter or more trustworthy than they actually are.
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#28Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…
I was going to say the Catholic Church often seems to be at the center of these regimes, but I guess we all see things through our own lens.
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Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
directly from the article: "But one of the most lasting abuses of the era was borne by children. In the late 1930s and 1940s, Antonio Vallejo-Nájera, a leading psychiatrist in the regime who was trained in Nazi Germany, promoted the idea of a Marxist “red gene” carried by the children of Franco’s left-wing opponents. The gene, he said, might be suppressed by removing children from their mothers and placing them with…
> Antonio Vallejo-Nájera was explicit about the political/eugenic character of these transfers There's nothing "eugenic" about a policy with a premise of "these children have bad genes, but we can overcome that by getting the right people to raise them". That is the opposite of eugenics.
You're assuming fascist ideology needs to be internally consistent. If you look at historical examples, it rarely is.
Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth
#30Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…
There's bad doctors, just like there are bad people in every profession. How many software engineers does it take to make a dystopian spy state or spy company? You probably need many more than you would need doctors for unethical experiments. What's wrong with software engineers that they would knowingly do such a thing? I suspect the motivations for wanting to push the technological limits in advertising or spying are the same as the ones for pushing the limits of medical science.