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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

nytimes.com

11–20 of 220 posts

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolute pile of BS you just barfed there. Franco saved Spain...for example, by asking the German Condor to bomb Guernica and using state-sponsored media to accuse the communists instead? Tell me more about saving a country...

Both the winners and the losers can be the bad guys.

Yeah, people die during civil wars. But it's not the republicans who overthrew a second republic, and Franco did certainly not 'save' anything.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#12

This has been a big topic in Spain in the last 10 years. It's great to see that most of the cases are being opened to the public now. Note: I'm from Spain While it's true that this happened under the fascist rule of Franco, I'm not sure that the fascists had nothing to do with it, so I think the article title is a bit misleading. In my view, this issue was mainly caused by two things: 1. Imbalance of power, where pow…

> I'm not sure that the fascists had nothing to do with it

How will large-scale abduction of babies and deceiving of the parents by telling them that their baby died can happen without the cooperation of the state - openly or clandestinely. Especially considering how a lot of those related to these incidents belonged to the Catholic church and they were not only protected by the fascists but were an actual appendage of the regime...

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#13
post #9
post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

At some point someone has to expect something Inquisition-like in Spain, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty...

Result of 500 year old Elizabethan propaganda. Actual historical records show that Inquisition persecution was SO lightweight and tolerant that even ordinary criminals tried to get themselves reclassified as religious offenders to be able to get off lightly.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#14
post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

If the Church is acting as a vehicle for a military coup that seeks to depose the democratically elected regime, then it is not invulnerable from the law.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#15

This has been a big topic in Spain in the last 10 years. It's great to see that most of the cases are being opened to the public now. Note: I'm from Spain While it's true that this happened under the fascist rule of Franco, I'm not sure that the fascists had nothing to do with it, so I think the article title is a bit misleading. In my view, this issue was mainly caused by two things: 1. Imbalance of power, where pow…

directly from the article:

"But one of the most lasting abuses of the era was borne by children. In the late 1930s and 1940s, Antonio Vallejo-Nájera, a leading psychiatrist in the regime who was trained in Nazi Germany, promoted the idea of a Marxist “red gene” carried by the children of Franco’s left-wing opponents. The gene, he said, might be suppressed by removing children from their mothers and placing them with conservative families. Franco’s men soon began the abductions on a large scale. They targeted children orphaned by Franco’s firing squads and took newborns belonging to women who had given birth in jail as political prisoners. All were sent to be raised by regime loyalists. The era of the “stolen babies” had begun."

the transfer of the babies, predominantly from low class families to high ranking Catholics, allies of Franco's regime of course makes the ideological connection clear.

Antonio Vallejo-Nájera was explicit about the political/eugenic character of these transfers:

"Vallejo’s conclusions were that the only way to prevent the racial dissolution of the Spanish was to take away the red children from their mothers in places "away from democratic environments and where the exaltation of bio-psychic racial qualities is encouraged". By 1943, 12,043 children had been taken from their mothers and handed over to orphanages or Francoist families"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Vallejo-N%C3%A1jera

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#16

This has been a big topic in Spain in the last 10 years. It's great to see that most of the cases are being opened to the public now. Note: I'm from Spain While it's true that this happened under the fascist rule of Franco, I'm not sure that the fascists had nothing to do with it, so I think the article title is a bit misleading. In my view, this issue was mainly caused by two things: 1. Imbalance of power, where pow…

> Imbalance of power, where powerful entities were able to "buy" influence over the hospital personel (usually with some relation with the Church) to get the babies of poor people that will not be able to fight back (because of lack of knowledge or resources)

I don't think it's unreasonable to draw a connection between this and the fascist principle of individual subordination. Particularly when Franco's government directly controlled the church and mandated its omnipresence[1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Catholicism

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point someone has to expect something Inquisition-like in Spain, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty...

Result of 500 year old Elizabethan propaganda. Actual historical records show that Inquisition persecution was SO lightweight and tolerant that even ordinary criminals tried to get themselves reclassified as religious offenders to be able to get off lightly.

You obviously don't know history, unless 'lightweight persecution' includes torture in your dictionary.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Tomas-de-Torquemada

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#19

Reminds me of the Yemenite stolen babies. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-07-31/ty-article/hu...

It’s also happened fairly recently with US adoptions of Cambodian babies: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kbyeg/cambodian-adoption-fr...

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#20
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Result of 500 year old Elizabethan propaganda. Actual historical records show that Inquisition persecution was SO lightweight and tolerant that even ordinary criminals tried to get themselves reclassified as religious offenders to be able to get off lightly.

You obviously don't know history, unless 'lightweight persecution' includes torture in your dictionary. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Tomas-de-Torquemada

Ah, Encyclopedia Britannica - the British Empire, having established the Anglican ecclesial community in defiance of Rome, mortal ancient enemies of the Spanish Empire. I'm sure they have no motive to embellish black legends about the Romish Church and English Catholics like St. Thomas More and William Shakespeare were perfectly safe to practice their faith and attend Popish Masses and priests never needed to hide from British authorities. Yeah, totally unbiased source, that Britannica. God save the King.
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